LP help :)

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12253 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

what year did Gbson start making swiss cheese/chambered/weight relief Les paul customers? It seems it is difficult to find a new LP custom to suit my taste that isn't solid. I see black ones here and there that are being billed as non chambered but I don't want black.

what is the cut off time to be safe. If i end up looking, I dont want to be looking , find the right one and find out its 8lbs or lighter . and please dont argue that the chambered sound better. they dont to me. thanks

Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 2472 Location: Ontario, Canada

Every year of LP's that I know of are at least weight relieved. I believe that 2008 is the year that the standard went full on chambered. Any LP standard that is Pre-2007 should only be weight relieved and any LP traditional from any year should also only be weight relieved.

Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any Gibson LP's that are completely solid body. At least not from the last 20 or more years.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

BLOODROOT wrote:

what year did Gbson start making swiss cheese/chambered/weight relief Les paul customers? It seems it is difficult to find a new LP custom to suit my taste that isn't solid. I see black ones here and there that are being billed as non chambered but I don't want black.

what is the cut off time to be safe. If i end up looking, I dont want to be looking , find the right one and find out its 8lbs or lighter . and please dont argue that the chambered sound better. they dont to me. thanks

Weight relief started in 1982. Chambering started in either late 2006 or early 2007. There is a difference between weight relieved and chambering.

Here is a good article for you with photos.

"There was a time when hefting a 12 or 13-pound Les Paul seemed to be the mark of a real man. Players talked a lot about sustain as if it related directly to weight and how you needed all that weight and mass to achieve a desirable tone. The truth is, not everyone believes that “heavier” equates to “better” in sonic terms, nor do many players want to sling a 13-pound guitar over their shoulder for a 90-minute set. What’s the answer? For Gibson, for many years, it has been found in carefully, strategically weight-relieving guitars, and the procedure brings many benefits to the player.

“In my heart of hearts I really think that weight relieving is the right thing to do,” says Gibson Master Luthier Jim DeCola. “It’s just a good thing. It costs us extra time and effort to do it, so we’re not saving anything. It’s an expense on our part, but we feel good about doing it.”

DeCola explains that Gibson USA currently uses three different means of reducing weight and tuning a guitar body’s resonant response. The longest standing of these is what he refers to as “traditional weight relieving,” as used on the Les Paul Traditional. This process involves routing nine round holes in a Les Paul’s mahogany body before the maple top is attached. The holes are strategically placed in the lower bouts on the bass-side of the guitar. The result, DeCola says, “is a guitar that’s lighter than a non-weight-relieved guitar, but which still has some weight to it and feels solid.”

"Going to the other extreme, Gibson has also used full-on “chambering” on some models, such as the 2008 Les Paul Standard. Achieved by routing large, oval chambers either side of the central core where the bridge and pickups are mounted, chambering has achieved the lightest Les Pauls made. “This is the most dramatic technique,” says DeCola, “and results in a guitar that almost has more of an acoustic resonance to it.”

"The third, and newest, process involves what DeCola terms “modern weight relief,” as used on the 2012 Les Paul Standard, and which is a middle ground between traditional weight relief and chambering. “Some players playing fully chambered guitars at high volume and gain levels found the guitar was a little too resonant, and might feedback a little more as a result of that,” he tells us. To achieve a desirable weight relief while retaining an increased amount of tonewoods around the bridge and pickups, Gibson routs multiple smaller elliptical sound-chambers inside the mahogany body."

This new modern weight-relief technique results in a Les Paul that, all else being equal, has a weight somewhere between traditional weight relief and chambering, but what are the technique’s affects on a guitar’s tone?

“Both the traditional and new modern weight relief are pretty hard to discern,” says DeCola. “If you play a batch of weight-relieved Les Pauls [of both types] and a batch of non-weight-relieved Les Pauls they will all have slight variations in tone even between those of the same type, but you’re very unlikely to hear consistent differences between the weight-relieved and non-weight-relieve guitars.” And as for the weight-equals-sustain myth, “if anything,” says DeCola, “the weight relieving enhances the resonance, which I feel helps with the sustain.”

In the end, it all comes back to DeCola’s words at the start of his explanation of these weight-relieving techniques: “It’s just a good thing. It costs us extra time and effort to do it… but we feel good about doing it.”

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:50 pm

shorty85 wrote:

Every year of LP's that I know of are at least weight relieved. I believe that 2008 is the year that the standard went full on chambered. Any LP standard that is Pre-2007 should only be weight relieved and any LP traditional from any year should also only be weight relieved.

Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any Gibson LP's that are completely solid body. At least not from the last 20 or more years.

All the Historics apart from certain chambered R8's are solid bodies.

They were the only ones available solid bodied for a long time, until a couple of weeks ago. As of now, all Les Paul Traditionals will feature solid, non-weight relieved bodies.

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12253 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

I played one of these lp customs. was a new one and was horrible. just the most aweful feeling soundling les paul ever. felt like it weighed 5 pounds. felt like a toy. was new and def not the weight relieved one from the 1st or 3rd pic of lannings.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

what-a-cool-username wrote:

As of now, all Les Paul Traditionals will feature solid, non-weight relieved bodies.

There is no Les Paul made at the moment without out at least the swiss cheese pattern drilled. The Traditionals are weight relived just not chambered.

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:24 pm

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

what-a-cool-username wrote:

As of now, all Les Paul Traditionals will feature solid, non-weight relieved bodies.

There is no Les Paul made at the moment without out at least the swiss cheese pattern drilled. The Traditionals are weight relived just not chambered.

Sorry Lanning babe, but the 2013 Trads are solid bodied. Confirmed by Gibson themselves, they've already started shipping. You can find 'em on Sweetwater and a few other sites where the same solid-body specs are echoed. They might all be out of stock at the moment due to the current blowout on them, but it's the truth. Mr. Green

Quote:

The New Les Paul Traditional is built on a foundation of the same traditional tonewood combination that helped to make the Les Paul Standard legendary when it first arrived six decades ago. A carved solid Grade-AA figured maple top lends bite and articulation to the sound while looking great in the process, and a solid, mahogany back without weight relief contributes superb warmth and depth.

Plus, the Historic range are all solid, with the exception of certain chambered R8's, as I previously stated.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

what-a-cool-username wrote:

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

what-a-cool-username wrote:

As of now, all Les Paul Traditionals will feature solid, non-weight relieved bodies.

There is no Les Paul made at the moment without out at least the swiss cheese pattern drilled. The Traditionals are weight relived just not chambered.

Sorry Lanning babe, but the 2013 Trads are solid bodied. Confirmed by Gibson themselves, they've already started shipping. You can find 'em on Sweetwater and a few other sites where the same solid-body specs are echoed. They might all be out of stock at the moment due to the current blowout on them, but it's the truth. Mr. Green

Quote:

The New Les Paul Traditional is built on a foundation of the same traditional tonewood combination that helped to make the Les Paul Standard legendary when it first arrived six decades ago. A carved solid Grade-AA figured maple top lends bite and articulation to the sound while looking great in the process, and a solid, mahogany back without weight relief contributes superb warmth and depth.

Plus, the Historic range are all solid, with the exception of certain chambered R8's, as I previously stated.

OK cool. Good luck standing with that on stage... Laughing

A 12lb guitar is NOT fun to play on stage but they'll sell a ton of them because everyone thinks it's a superior build. I sold my Custom Shop Black Beauty because it wasn't fun to play once I had to stand up.

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12253 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

this wasnt suppose to be the "i know more than you, I'm smarter, more experienced blah blah blah" I just wanted to know one answer. thanks guys.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

BLOODROOT wrote:

this wasnt suppose to be the "i know more than you, I'm smarter, more experienced blah blah blah" I just wanted to know one answer. thanks guys.

I never said I was smarter or knew more than anyone. I just posted bad information and was corrected (which unit these 2013s came out is good information). I only spoke of my experience with a heavy LP. My personal thoughts is that the only people complaining about LPs not being completely solid are dudes I have seen talking about it on the internet. They have been whining for years. Gibson, wanting to sell more guitars said "OK we'll give you want you want so we can sell some guitars". Once they are out and all those guys own them they will find something else to bitch about online. I'd put my ZV up for dibs as a bet. If you can hear the difference between a swiss cheese relieved LP and a solid LP in a non-biased test you get my guitar. There is no way you'd be able to.

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:14 am

Get a historic..... Game. Set. Match. Non-relieved and are generally sub-9lbs.

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12253 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

BLOODROOT wrote:

this wasnt suppose to be the "i know more than you, I'm smarter, more experienced blah blah blah" I just wanted to know one answer. thanks guys.

I never said I was smarter or knew more than anyone. I just posted bad information and was corrected (which unit these 2013s came out is good information). I only spoke of my experience with a heavy LP. My personal thoughts is that the only people complaining about LPs not being completely solid are dudes I have seen talking about it on the internet. They have been whining for years. Gibson, wanting to sell more guitars said "OK we'll give you want you want so we can sell some guitars". Once they are out and all those guys own them they will find something else to bitch about online. I'd put my ZV up for dibs as a bet. If you can hear the difference between a swiss cheese relieved LP and a solid LP in a non-biased test you get my guitar. There is no way you'd be able to.

no but it was bout to go down, with you and the other dood.

and I can def tell the difference between a chambered one and the non chambered. weight relieved , I dunno but the one with the scooped out void, definitely. but again. I just wanted to know the year they started taking the huge void out of the body.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

Not chambered... Weight relieved and Solid. I'm not talking about chambered. There is a HUGE difference between weight relieved and chambered. You won't be able to tell the difference between weight relieved and solid.

I'm not going to fight with a dude about internet facts. It doesn't make sense to argue with someone over what they can find out after a few minutes on Google. It's not like the dude works for Gibson and is all knowing. I only posted what I knew, which apparently changed as of the 2013 lineup. I don't spend my time following companies and their guitar specs. I'm not being a dick here. I'm not offended by any of this because it has nothing to do with playing guitar.

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12253 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

Not chambered... Weight relieved and Solid. I'm not talking about chambered. There is a HUGE difference between weight relieved and chambered. You won't be able to tell the difference between weight relieved and solid.

I'm not going to fight with a dude about internet facts. It doesn't make sense to argue with someone over what they can find out after a few minutes on Google. It's not like the dude works for Gibson and is all knowing. I only posted what I knew, which apparently changed as of the 2013 lineup. I'm not being a dick here. I'm not offended by any of this because it has nothing to do with playing guitar.

Settle down dood. Razz

I just wanted to know the date. I didnt want to be schooled on my hearing. just a date.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

OK then anything before 1982 and after 2013.

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12253 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

thank you. Very Happy

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12253 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

OK then anything before 1982 and after 2013.

this is why I was confused. So much stuff on the net. some said 1982, some said 1992. Some guitars on ebay are saying wrong info in their sales blurbs.

so maybe I wait to see what next year spits out for colors, options and all that jazz. maybe it will be easier to justify dropping close to 5k on a guitar. I'm very ok with playing cheap ass korean guitars but wanted to make sure I get the absolute perfect guitar when dropping that much coin on one single instrument.

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:25 am

No rumble in the jungle was my intention, just layin' down the fax. Mr. Green

The whole Gibby community are rejoicing thanks to these new Trads, but like Lanning rightly said, they'll not be so jubilant when they all end up with pretzels for spines. Laughing

But yeah, to address the original post: Weight relief started in 1982, with every Gibson USA Les Paul from '82 to '07 being weight relieved in some form or another. After '07 came the full chambering of the Standards, while what's now known as 'traditional' weight relief or the Swiss cheese was on the rest of the models.

That's stayed right up until the present day, until the new Traditionals were introduced. Worth noting that so far, the Traditionals are the only USA models being offered with solid bodies, everything else is as before.

If you want a Les Paul between the years of '82 and '13 that's solid, you'll have to buy a Custom Shop reissue or something along those lines.

Also Kris, the new stuff for next year has already been released. You can check it out on the Gibby website! If it were me, though, I'd keep my eye out for a second-hand reissue. You can get some seriously cracker guitars for not much more than the price of a new Standard.

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:29 am

I am 48 and a 13lb Les Paul does no bother me in the least. Some people are just used to heavier guitars

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

Northwinds wrote:

I am 48 and a 13lb Les Paul does no bother me in the least. Some people are just used to heavier guitars

I'm built like a Thai hooker so I can't do heavy guitars anymore.

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:56 am

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

Northwinds wrote:

I am 48 and a 13lb Les Paul does no bother me in the least. Some people are just used to heavier guitars

I'm built like a Thai hooker so I can't do heavy guitars anymore.

sup baby

Joined: 11 Jan 2012 Posts: 24 Location: Morganville, NJ

clmazza7 wrote:

Get a historic..... Game. Set. Match. Non-relieved and are generally sub-9lbs.

+1

Get LPB-7 "Black Beauty" (long-tenon, big chunky neck, full mahogany body) or '68 Reissue (same long-tenon, but with maple cap).

I've owned 1997 LBP-7, great guitar.

Joined: 28 Mar 2006 Posts: 5463 Location: White Haven,Pa

Look in the 68 Reissue LPC.I am jonesin for one of those so bad I would trade both my USA V and USA Z even up for one!!

Joined: 30 Nov 2003 Posts: 10593 Location: Canada

Most people didn't know the swiss cheese holes were even there for 15 to 20 years. Can't be much of an issue...

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12253 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

Armitage wrote:

Most people didn't know the swiss cheese holes were even there for 15 to 20 years. Can't be much of an issue...

I was only concerned with the huge scooped ones.

Gotta put a new water heater and pressure tank in my house now. there goes some of my money towards a new guitar for a bit. Oh how things change and the joys of homes.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

BLOODROOT wrote:

I was only concerned with the huge scooped ones.

Then weight relieved is ok but chambered is not. There are a lot for you to choose from then. Laughing

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 10202 Location: New Jersey USA

I have a 2010 Traditional Plus Top. It is weight releived, but not chambered. It looks, feels and sounds solid. but it weighs around 8 lbs. I played through about 35 new Les Pauls in the span of a week or two, until i found the one that looked and felt right. That is what you need to do with Gibsons. You need to keep playing them until you find the right one. There is a lot of variation with Gibson from guitar to guitar, even when they come out of the same batch. I dont know if it is the level of hand finishing that they do, or the variation in materials, or what. But in my experience, no other guitar company has that kind of variation in USA production runs like that. In my opinion, buying a Gibson Les Paul over the internet is a crap shoot at best, whereas I have no problem buying other brand guitars online. But my Traditional Plus is a killer Les Paul... even though I had to play through 35 of them to find it.

On another note, I also put in a new hot water heater last week. Its a kick in the nuts aint it? But hot water kind of kicks ass when you need to take a shower.

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12253 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

thanks guys, I appreciate all the feedback. some stuff you really dont even think about until someone points it out and then youre like "oh yea"

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:06 pm

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

Northwinds wrote:

I am 48 and a 13lb Les Paul does no bother me in the least. Some people are just used to heavier guitars

I'm built like a Thai hooker so I can't do heavy guitars anymore.

Joined: 17 Dec 2004 Posts: 9602 Location: Portsmouth, VA

lordkronos187 wrote:

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

Northwinds wrote:

I am 48 and a 13lb Les Paul does no bother me in the least. Some people are just used to heavier guitars

I'm built like a Thai hooker so I can't do heavy guitars anymore.

sup baby

Watch out for the penis.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

formula73 wrote:

lordkronos187 wrote:

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

Northwinds wrote:

I am 48 and a 13lb Les Paul does no bother me in the least. Some people are just used to heavier guitars

I'm built like a Thai hooker so I can't do heavy guitars anymore.

sup baby

Watch out for the penis.

I tuck it back dude... I'm not amateur regardless of what that website lists my videos as.... Laughing

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:09 pm

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

formula73 wrote:

lordkronos187 wrote:

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

Northwinds wrote:

I am 48 and a 13lb Les Paul does no bother me in the least. Some people are just used to heavier guitars

I'm built like a Thai hooker so I can't do heavy guitars anymore.

sup baby

Watch out for the penis.

I tuck it back dude... I'm not amateur regardless of what that website lists my videos as.... Laughing

It's about to get sexy in here Very Happy

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12253 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

Northwinds wrote:

I am 48 and a 13lb Les Paul does no bother me in the least. Some people are just used to heavier guitars

I'm built like a Thai hooker so I can't do heavy guitars anymore.

hahaha I think its mltib who loves to go to thailand Shocked