Guitars

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:39 pm

Perhaps an odd question..,
The other guitar player in my band uses no pedals, just a tuner. He plays his EMG equipped Jackson straight into his Marshall. Just uses one switch to go from clean to dirty channel.
He wants to buy a 'cleanish' boost for leads.., he used to have a dual rec, and misses that lead sound.
Any suggestions of what pedal might get him there Question

Joined: 03 May 2008 Posts: 6667 Location: Minnesota

A clean boost? Grumpy Toad I think they call it?

I've got one that I used when I had my Marshall, pushed it louder without coloring the tone at all.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13400 Location: Earth

I have had both amps and the JCM900 had more gain than the Dual Rec did. I'm not sure I totally understand this but if he wants a clean boost without having to spend too much the MXR Micro Amp is cost effective and gets the job done. If he wants to get a Mesa tone then he can try one of Mesa Boogie's new pedals too.

Joined: 21 Sep 2010 Posts: 466

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

I have had both amps and the JCM900 had more gain than the Dual Rec did. I'm not sure I totally understand this but if he wants a clean boost without having to spend too much the MXR Micro Amp is cost effective and gets the job done. If he wants to get a Mesa tone then he can try one of Mesa Boogie's new pedals too.

I have never had a 900 with that much gain. What kind of 900's did you have Lanning? I've never had the reissue or the sl-x but my old ones always needed a boost to get them up to par.

Marshalls are voiced very differently than Mesas. I don't think you could ever get the same tone with a 900 imo. Very different animals.

Joined: 03 May 2008 Posts: 6667 Location: Minnesota

You could just tell him to buy my Sl-X, and then he'll have more gain than he'll ever need.

not sure why I didn't think of that before.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13400 Location: Earth

koury73 wrote:

I have never had a 900 with that much gain. What kind of 900's did you have Lanning? I've never had the reissue or the sl-x but my old ones always needed a boost to get them up to par.

I had a JCM900 (4100 series). It had 6L6 power tubes and a 100/50 watt selector in the back. I never needed a boost pedal in front of it. You have heard the kind of music I play. John5 uses them as well exclusively and has for the last bunch of years with Rob Zombie with no boost up front for anything except for leads. I don't know what amp you guys are playing that it doesn't have enough gain. I know that it had more usable gain than a Dual Rec which gets fuzzy and flubby if you turn the gain past 2 o clock on the dial.

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:34 pm

The SL-X has way more gain then a Dual Rec. Even a Triple Rec does not have what the SL-X can offer gainwise, just more options of how to use the power

I liked the fact that the SL-X had switchable Master volumes which you could setup for whatever you needed. I never put any boost pedal in the chain as it would just add more noise. The SL-X is a noisy amp and runs hotter then hell. A noisegate is mandatory for one

There is no "clean" with an SL-X, it was made to destroy Laughing

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13400 Location: Earth

It also comes down to the player. What I can use for a metal amp may differ from the next guy. Just because I think a 900 has enough gain for metal doesn't mean you will feel the same way. We play differently.

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12280 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

my jcm 900 4100 or slx had barely acdc gain. sounded great but needed pedals. my dual rec had plenty of gain , yours must have been broken lanning.

Joined: 07 Aug 2007 Posts: 2750 Location: Southeast MI

It's called the "sell the Marshall, buy the Mesa" pedal. Laughing

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:25 am

Graunke wrote:

You could just tell him to buy my Sl-X, and then he'll have more gain than he'll ever need.

not sure why I didn't think of that before.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13400 Location: Earth

BLOODROOT wrote:

my jcm 900 4100 or slx had barely acdc gain. sounded great but needed pedals. my dual rec had plenty of gain , yours must have been broken lanning.

John5's must be broken too. I consider "AC/DC gain" like a JTM or JMP. I guess my 900 was on the fritz lol

Go to 5:28... He shows his pedals and says he has his OD for solos. He's just using the 900s for everything else. It's enough gain for their stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_3sHlZUqR8

Joined: 29 Jul 2009 Posts: 1052 Location: charlottle nc

Just boost it with an OD and you will have that liquid compression as for john 5 I always thought he used boss overdrives, even if they are just for leads, most of his solo work is...well...leads.

Joined: 03 May 2008 Posts: 6667 Location: Minnesota

BLOODROOT wrote:

my jcm 900 4100 or slx had barely acdc gain. sounded great but needed pedals. my dual rec had plenty of gain , yours must have been broken lanning.

Yours must have been broken. Laughing

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 10221 Location: New Jersey USA

My JCM 900 must be broken too, as it has tons of gain with no pedals. It even says something like "super high gain" on the front, doesnt it? However, saying that, the probem with the 4100 series is that it has diode distortion in the lead channel, which basically sounds a bit too transistory for most people. I have found that if you take an EQ pedal, or a Sonic Maximizer and put it in the effects loop, it takes that transistor residue right out and makes it sound more like a JCM 800 in tone. Adding a tube screamer to the front input with the gain on zero helps tighten up the sound too. But it definately has gobs of gain without any help. I got my 900 on the cheap. And yeah, i would rather have a nice 80's JCM 800. But I have been totally surprised by how much I really enjoy that JCM 900. In fact, the clean channel is totally killer. Its a keeper for sure.

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:46 am

I have both the MXR Micro Amp and the MXR Line Driver/Booster, and I find that the latter makes for a better boost. It's a tad louder than the Micro Amp and virtually transparent. The Micro Amp makes an excellent overdrive pedal, but it's not the cleanest of boost pedals.

Joined: 21 Sep 2010 Posts: 466

Looking back through photos my JCM 900 were not the high gain featured heads. havent owned that head since I was in high school. I've never owned that version, and I haven't tried them either. The heads I had had the typical AC/DC drive and that was all with the gain dimed. So maybe thats where some of this difference in opinion comes from. Because comparing a dual rec to a standard jcm 900 non high gain model the dual rec would have more gain around 9-10oclock than the jcm 900 dimed.

Joined: 21 Sep 2010 Posts: 466

And that has been one thing that has perked my interest in the JCM 900 is Jon 5's tone freaking crushes live. I love the 3 pedal setup, all battery powered, no #$%&#@ rig he plays live with. Dude is just a fantastic guitarist.

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:07 pm

koury73 wrote:

Looking back through photos my JCM 900 were not the high gain featured heads. havent owned that head since I was in high school. I've never owned that version, and I haven't tried them either. The heads I had had the typical AC/DC drive and that was all with the gain dimed. So maybe thats where some of this difference in opinion comes from. Because comparing a dual rec to a standard jcm 900 non high gain model the dual rec would have more gain around 9-10oclock than the jcm 900 dimed.

The difference between the 4100 and the SL-X 2100 is an extra preamp tube. I had one Dual Rec and it did not have the gain of the SL-X, not even close. The Dual Rec sounded fizzy dimed and only sounded decent when it was cranked, the SL-X was hissy but nothing a good quality noisegate would not take care of, I used to pull two power tubes out and crank that mofo in the house

Joined: 13 Feb 2004 Posts: 5634 Location: phoenix az.

to answer the question of the topic my mxr green custom shop overdrive works very well and isnt muddy pretty transparent to.also if u take a metal zone and turn the gain almost all the way down you can use the level to boost.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13400 Location: Earth

Come to think of it, the other guitarist in my old band from like 10 years ago had an original 900 and it wasn't very high gain compared to the 4100. There is a difference. The 4100 has SL-X style gain which is considerably more than the old 900s. The ones that John5 uses are the high gain versions which is the 4100. The one I had was a 4100 and had DSL2000 gain.

Joined: 03 May 2008 Posts: 6667 Location: Minnesota

There was a 2100 series, precursor to the SL-X. I think it was called a Mark III or Mark IV or something like that.

I had one in high school. Gain was on two channels 1-10, and 10-20 on the other. No clean.

This might be the amp you're talking about.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 10221 Location: New Jersey USA

Graunke wrote:

There was a 2100 series, precursor to the SL-X. I think it was called a Mark III or Mark IV or something like that.

I had one in high school. Gain was on two channels 1-10, and 10-20 on the other. No clean.

This might be the amp you're talking about.

It was the MK III.

Joined: 31 Mar 2006 Posts: 2025

I still think the 8100 is the best "metal" Marshall ever made, smokes any Dual Rectum I've played. 900 dual reverbs are similar in that all the preamp distortion is solid state. They both sound great boosted. Like Lanning said, the Mesa's have mushy fizzy gain, I can't get a decent tone from one. Plus a Marshall will bury any mesa in a live situation, they cut SOOOOO much better.

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:39 pm

Hey, thanks for all the replies folks.., I was offline this week, dodging gunfire in Vegas at the Excalibur (about 300' from me).
I'll let him know of all the suggestions.., he just needs a boost for leads and was curious if something out there will color his leads similar to his old Mesa sound.
I hope he tries the Micro Amp.., I don't need one, but have always wanted to try one those pedals.
Jack White creates a Stutter sound with the Micro Amp by stabbing his strings with his pick over the pups.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13400 Location: Earth

Double Post.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13400 Location: Earth

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ThrottleBox

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:20 pm

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ThrottleBox

Thanks Lann,

We jammed last night, he does have a metal zone (at home) and doesn't like it too much..., I told him to bring it next jam and try it with the gain dialed to zero. We'll see.

Oh, my mistake..., he has a JCM2000 which he runs straight into with a EMG equipped Jackson.

After reading this thread, it sounds like he might try a Micro Amp soon as a lead boost.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13400 Location: Earth

bassmantim71 wrote:

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ThrottleBox

Thanks Lann,

We jammed last night, he does have a metal zone (at home) and doesn't like it too much..., I told him to bring it next jam and try it with the gain dialed to zero. We'll see.

Oh, my mistake..., he has a JCM2000 which he runs straight into with a EMG equipped Jackson.

After reading this thread, it sounds like he might try a Micro Amp soon as a lead boost.

The Metal Zone is a capable pedal in the right hands. There is a killer $75 mod that Keeley Electronics does if you send it to them. I used to have one and it makes all the world of difference from the stock Metal Zone. It takes the harshness out and just makes it sound good overall...

The mod if you send your pedal is $75, or they will ship you a new one modded for $199.

http://www.robertkeeley.com/products/boss/mt-2-metal-zone/

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:36 am

I love my stock metalzone personally. Then again I eq the hell out of it but I dig it with my mxr 6 band in to the front of the randall rm 100 blackface channel. The blackface gain somehow works really well to thicken the metalzone *shrug* food for thought

Joined: 13 Feb 2004 Posts: 5634 Location: phoenix az.

bassmantim71 wrote:

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ThrottleBox

Thanks Lann,

We jammed last night, he does have a metal zone (at home) and doesn't like it too much..., I told him to bring it next jam and try it with the gain dialed to zero. We'll see.

Oh, my mistake..., he has a JCM2000 which he runs straight into with a EMG equipped Jackson.

After reading this thread, it sounds like he might try a Micro Amp soon as a lead boost.

should work.