Guitars

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12280 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=184214

I thought everyone knew that 30 was the cut off.
Even 3days grace guitar player said in an interview If you haven't got a record deal by time your 25, its not gonna happen and if you are over 30, you should stop playing music and just go die cause its embarrassing to see grown men trying to rock out. Even in my town, everyone refers to my band as "the legend" and call us grampa all the time and joke "break a hip" instead of "break a leg" before going on stage. One guy from a local band that use to open for bloodroot alot, last year came to my cover band gig that me and my singer from bloodroot are in and said "I'm glad to see you guys playing music more appropriate for you guys" with total sincerity. But its wierd here. Alot of respect and clout comes from the gear you own here. The better your gear the more respect you get. If you go on stage with anything less than 5150II, Engl, Mesa or Splawn here, you get a lot of flack. Guitars and drums too. Better be name brand. If not you better hide it behind a backdrop. And Marshall, dont bother unless youre doing a cover band. And dont be bringing a pedalboard full of crap. Thats like taboo unless youre in a coverband which doing coverbands is really frowned upon too. You can do like a wah, whammy, tuner and delay. Anything else better be in a rack. Its a huge deal. I had a guy once say "your band only has great gear cause youre older than my dad" Seriously.

Joined: 25 Dec 2004 Posts: 1949 Location: NY

Sounds like a bunch of dicks. Music should be based on.......oh......I dunno......the music?!?!

Joined: 03 May 2008 Posts: 6664 Location: Minnesota

I have not experienced this yet.

A kid with a Les Paul and a Boogie tried telling me how I was old once.

After the gig, he wanted to know what the secret to my tone was.

It was awesome when i showed him he could have my rig for under $600.

Joined: 10 Mar 2008 Posts: 667 Location: Dallas,TX.

Try telling that to this guy. Laughing

Joined: 19 Aug 2008 Posts: 4627 Location: UP of Michigan

I play acoustic gigs with a guy in his upper 50s and he's always telling me to kick it up a notch Laughing

Joined: 27 Feb 2012 Posts: 1252 Location: New York, NY

Powerglide350 wrote:

Sounds like a bunch of dicks. Music should be based on.......oh......I dunno......the music?!?!

+1,000,000 music is supposed to be fun, not a pissing contest.

Joined: 04 Jun 2012 Posts: 366 Location: South-West Ohio

sounds like some guys need to grow up.

Joined: 13 Feb 2004 Posts: 5634 Location: phoenix az.

BLOODROOT wrote:

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=184214

I thought everyone knew that 30 was the cut off.
Even 3days grace guitar player said in an interview If you haven't got a record deal by time your 25, its not gonna happen and if you are over 30, you should stop playing music and just go die cause its embarrassing to see grown men trying to rock out. Even in my town, everyone refers to my band as "the legend" and call us grampa all the time and joke "break a hip" instead of "break a leg" before going on stage. One guy from a local band that use to open for bloodroot alot, last year came to my cover band gig that me and my singer from bloodroot are in and said "I'm glad to see you guys playing music more appropriate for you guys" with total sincerity. But its wierd here. Alot of respect and clout comes from the gear you own here. The better your gear the more respect you get. If you go on stage with anything less than 5150II, Engl, Mesa or Splawn here, you get a lot of flack. Guitars and drums too. Better be name brand. If not you better hide it behind a backdrop. And Marshall, dont bother unless youre doing a cover band. And dont be bringing a pedalboard full of crap. Thats like taboo unless youre in a coverband which doing coverbands is really frowned upon too. You can do like a wah, whammy, tuner and delay. Anything else better be in a rack. Its a huge deal. I had a guy once say "your band only has great gear cause youre older than my dad" Seriously.

this is the dumbest s#%t ive heard. Most of the best bands in phx range from 30 n-50 year old dudes.I use marshall and people always compliment my tone especially sound guys.Im in 2 metal bands nobody ever says s#%t like that to me of course alot of bands are about my age to 44.Sounds like some s#%t a teenager would say.Not everybody is playing to get famous some of us actually play cause we love it and couldent see it any other way.If ur playing to get famous maybe u should hang it up at 30.I dunno u dont agree with this crap do u chris?i know u still play shows.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13400 Location: Earth

This is really stupid Rolling Eyes

You know what matters? Good tunes, money to push them and who you know. Age is NOT an issue unless you're stuck in your town due to personal commitments that older people tend to accrue over the years.

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:53 am

Sounds like it's time to move eh?

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:19 pm

BLOODROOT wrote:

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=184214

I thought everyone knew that 30 was the cut off.
Even 3days grace guitar player said in an interview If you haven't got a record deal by time your 25, its not gonna happen and if you are over 30, you should stop playing music and just go die cause its embarrassing to see grown men trying to rock out. Even in my town, everyone refers to my band as "the legend" and call us grampa all the time and joke "break a hip" instead of "break a leg" before going on stage. One guy from a local band that use to open for bloodroot alot, last year came to my cover band gig that me and my singer from bloodroot are in and said "I'm glad to see you guys playing music more appropriate for you guys" with total sincerity. But its wierd here. Alot of respect and clout comes from the gear you own here. The better your gear the more respect you get. If you go on stage with anything less than 5150II, Engl, Mesa or Splawn here, you get a lot of flack. Guitars and drums too. Better be name brand. If not you better hide it behind a backdrop. And Marshall, dont bother unless youre doing a cover band. And dont be bringing a pedalboard full of crap. Thats like taboo unless youre in a coverband which doing coverbands is really frowned upon too. You can do like a wah, whammy, tuner and delay. Anything else better be in a rack. Its a huge deal. I had a guy once say "your band only has great gear cause youre older than my dad" Seriously.

I have never been happier to not live someplace than after reading the above. Jeez.

Joined: 26 Feb 2010 Posts: 76 Location: Southern Ohio

3 days grace also said its never too late Laughing

. Not a big fan them anyway. If 30 was the cutoff for playing, most of us wouldn't be here on this or any other forum.

Oh yeah, the pissing contest on the gear. I can relate. Buddy of mine bought a dual rectumfryer after I bought a peavey xxl (not the triple x cuz I'm poor) and loved to rub it in. But what would always shut him up was everybody would compliment my playing and tone. They all thought I owned the mesa and was shocked when I showed them the peavey. I guess the point I'm trying to make is the gear is only as good as the person who owns it hehe.

But......I wouldn't mind having an orange rockerverb...or a bogner über shall...or a Marshall jcm 800 if I could afford it Crying or Very sad

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:20 pm

helltone wrote:

Try telling that to this guy. Laughing

right!!

But, i think he already had a contract before he was 30...just sayin

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13400 Location: Earth

There is a word for people that judge you based on gear.... Posers.

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 7668 Location: Florida

I thought it was kind of funny, it was meant to be humorous, wasn't it?

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 2132

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

There is a word for people that judge you based on gear.... Posers.

Same can be said for those judging you on your age...now that's true grade "A" poser for ya.

Joined: 09 Jul 2007 Posts: 341 Location: cali.

It is a sign of the times. Everyone thinks that you are either famous or s#%t. there is no in between. %$#@! em. If you enjoy playing keep playing. Hell I'm 52 , no band but I went to see Schenker and the opening bands were mostly older. Small venue.

Joined: 30 Nov 2003 Posts: 10625 Location: Canada

A lot of denial going on here. And people forgetting being 14 and thinking 30 year old people might as well be a million years old.

Joined: 07 Sep 2008 Posts: 816 Location: South wales, uk

Age doesn't make or break a musician..

The corporate big wigs do..

Joined: 30 Nov 2003 Posts: 10625 Location: Canada

The paying audience decides whether they think you're cool and have good tunes... not the band. Every band thinks they're cool with great tunes.

Compare the number of bands that made it in their 20s, young unexperienced, to bands in their 40s who've worked their craft and have 20+ years experience playing their gear and writing songs... It's like chick singers, compare the number of successful fat ugly ones to the hot ones... chubby girls can sing their hearts out too.

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:16 pm

BLOODROOT wrote:

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=184214

I thought everyone knew that 30 was the cut off.
Even 3days grace guitar player said in an interview If you haven't got a record deal by time your 25, its not gonna happen and if you are over 30, you should stop playing music and just go die cause its embarrassing to see grown men trying to rock out. Even in my town, everyone refers to my band as "the legend" and call us grampa all the time and joke "break a hip" instead of "break a leg" before going on stage. One guy from a local band that use to open for bloodroot alot, last year came to my cover band gig that me and my singer from bloodroot are in and said "I'm glad to see you guys playing music more appropriate for you guys" with total sincerity. But its wierd here. Alot of respect and clout comes from the gear you own here. The better your gear the more respect you get. If you go on stage with anything less than 5150II, Engl, Mesa or Splawn here, you get a lot of flack. Guitars and drums too. Better be name brand. If not you better hide it behind a backdrop. And Marshall, dont bother unless youre doing a cover band. And dont be bringing a pedalboard full of crap. Thats like taboo unless youre in a coverband which doing coverbands is really frowned upon too. You can do like a wah, whammy, tuner and delay. Anything else better be in a rack. Its a huge deal. I had a guy once say "your band only has great gear cause youre older than my dad" Seriously.

What a bunch of #$%&#@. Since the guy is talking about people who haven't made it by 30. What great song has his band done? They are no Sabbath, Priest, Maiden, Van Halen. Was his band the one that did "Superman?" I take that back, they are certified platinum, but their music sucks, sounds like most other alt #$%&#@ being released. As far as gear is concerned I saw a band Sunday night named Witchhaven. Great band, and the guitarists both used Carvin heads, and each had a 2x12 Fender cabinet. They ripped! You can tell they were influenced by Slayer, Death Angel and other thrash bands of the period.

http://www.facebook.com/WitchavenOfficial

Dr Know was cool too, as well as Greg Hetson's new band General frippin Principle.

Really Kris, don't let those shitheads affect your thinking. I remember the last show I played in Nov 2005, some guy told our singer "we were too old." and Joe was starting to cry. I told Joe, "if he couldn't deal with it, get off the frippin stage."

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:25 pm

ATR1990 wrote:

Age doesn't make or break a musician..

The corporate big wigs do..

+1

I could care less about making it. I'm glad I got allot of great gear, and can still play my heart out.

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:26 pm

ibmorjamn wrote:

It is a sign of the times. Everyone thinks that you are either famous or s#%t. there is no in between. %$#@! em. If you enjoy playing keep playing. Hell I'm 52 , no band but I went to see Schenker and the opening bands were mostly older. Small venue.

Did you see them @ Ramona Mainstage? I was at that show.

Taz Taylor band, and another band played that show. Both excellent guitarists with good songs to boot.

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:27 pm

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

There is a word for people that judge you based on gear.... Posers.

Lanning, I had you all wrong. You're cool in my book based on the statement.

Joined: 09 Jul 2007 Posts: 341 Location: cali.

ML Tib wrote:

ibmorjamn wrote:

It is a sign of the times. Everyone thinks that you are either famous or s#%t. there is no in between. %$#@! em. If you enjoy playing keep playing. Hell I'm 52 , no band but I went to see Schenker and the opening bands were mostly older. Small venue.

Did you see them @ Ramona Mainstage? I was at that show.

Taz Taylor band, and another band played that show. Both excellent guitarists with good songs to boot.

No Marquee out by Corona, Ufo played there a few weeks later. I met a guy who is a guitarist and just joined a band called Battle Front. I guess they have been around for a while. I think the singer/rhythm guitar is the only original member. They came just before Schenker and they kicked ass. Not all youngsters.

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:01 pm

ibmorjamn wrote:

ML Tib wrote:

ibmorjamn wrote:

It is a sign of the times. Everyone thinks that you are either famous or s#%t. there is no in between. %$#@! em. If you enjoy playing keep playing. Hell I'm 52 , no band but I went to see Schenker and the opening bands were mostly older. Small venue.

Did you see them @ Ramona Mainstage? I was at that show.

Taz Taylor band, and another band played that show. Both excellent guitarists with good songs to boot.

No Marquee out by Corona, Ufo played there a few weeks later. I met a guy who is a guitarist and just joined a band called Battle Front. I guess they have been around for a while. I think the singer/rhythm guitar is the only original member. They came just before Schenker and they kicked ass. Not all youngsters.

I saw Schenker there last February. I swore I'd never go there again for another big event. The Ramona Mainstage was a much better venue, but a pain in the ass through mountain passes.

Joined: 09 Jul 2007 Posts: 341 Location: cali.

I hope he comes back around this year (early). I'll check that place out.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13400 Location: Earth

ML Tib wrote:

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

There is a word for people that judge you based on gear.... Posers.

Lanning, I had you all wrong. You're cool in my book based on the statement.

Most people have me wrong most of the time. Laughing

I just find it funny that a dude who is not in charge of anyone's career, let alone his own has any real grasp on the temperature of the industry.

And what's making it? If he means your band won't be an arena band if you haven't started in your 20s because it takes decades to get there then OK I can see that point even though that could be flawed depending on your career track. I consider making it being able to not work a day job and support yourself by playing your instrument. Not only does age have nothing to do with that, but the amount of money needed to live varies so much from person to person that there is no way to gauge this.

I didn't go on, what I consider my first real tour until I was 33 (real as in multi-city, on the road 7 days a week playing every night for over a month). I have done more musically in my 30s than I could ever have done in my teens or 20s.

If the guy is saying, don't think you'll pick up a guitar in your 30s and get famous? Well that's an uphill battle but not an impossible one. I think it's based more on level of commitment. People in their 30s generally have more responsibilities tying themselves down so guitar and music can't be their first priorities. But that model doesn't fit everyone.

I feel better that I'm doing this in my 30s. Not only do I have the time, facilites and backing to do it, I have the commitment and support from my wife and family. So I look at statements like the one this guy made and laugh. Also I don't look old which helps. I still get carded for alcohol and I'll be 38 in February.

Don't listen to anyone about what you should do if your heart is pulling you hard to GIFD. If you want to be a rock star go make it happen. The industry is so fvcked up and the record execs don't even know what the hell is going on let alone a guy in a band. This is THE BEST TIME to try and make a career in music, not the worst.

As far as the BS about gear and what others think of what you're playing? I have played in almost every major city in N. America. I have played some really big venues and I have played in the corner of the bar where they have to move tables and no one shows up to your gig. I have never seen anyone give a sh1t about what someone was playing. If this is how it is in Peoria, well that's a city full of musicians who have no clue what's going on. Play what works for you, what you can afford and what makes you happy and gives you your sound. If that's a screaming half or full stack then fine. If that's a combo L6 Spider, then fine.

If you want to be the guy dragging a crap load of gear into a small club and your band's abilities can't back up your "wall of awesome" then be my guest. Playing ability and how the band sounds as a whole trumps the look of your gear every time. Anyone who thinks different needs an attitude adjustment.

If your band sucks with a wall of gear then you'll just suck looking like you have the cash to buy nice gear... If you play because of the gear and that's more important to you than the actual playing, well then you're a whole other type of "Special person".

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12280 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

ML Tib wrote:

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

There is a word for people that judge you based on gear.... Posers.

Lanning, I had you all wrong. You're cool in my book based on the statement.

unfortunately the entertainment world is not synonymous with integrity though. Its all built on lies and deceit.

looking at it from a business standpoint. youth are your buying public. The older you get the more priorities and responsibilities you get. the less time to buy music related products. No, kids don't buy cd's anymore but they do buy shirts, stickers, etc. Trends is how you get people excited about spending money. Youth follow trends. Back when I was a kid you'd go see a concert, it would be two bands, maybe three. the arena would be packed with 10k plus people. Now adays you go see 5 plus bands alot of times and the crowds are between 2 to 5k unless its one of those huge European gigs. There is just less money nowadays. That window is smaller for the machine to recoup money.

I recently watched a documentary on David Geffen. He told this story about the success of GNR. Its a bit different than the one told by people in the band or have been in the start of the band. Most stories are about instand success. David tells a story of a 2 year development deal. Spending alot of money with producers and song writers and rehearsals to get the songs perfect before going to recording and then advertising. He said once the cd dropped, in the first 6 months it sat at around 20k in sales which at that time is like saying no one bought it. Most bands today would be excited to sell 20k cd's. He said he made one call to MTV and had welcome to the jungle video played on rotation at 10 pm time frame and the cd started selling like hot cakes into platinum status. He eluded to the fact it was pay to play without saying it since he got in trouble doing it with Limp Bizkit. For those who dont know interscope (geffen) got in trouble for paying clear channel 5 million to play limpbizkit on rotation throughout the company. Alot of people dont know that slash was brought in much later in the game. After most of the songs were already written or had some basic form. Traci guys had to take geffen to court to get the money he was owed after what ever happened that he left the band. That is unclear but one reason why Axl hates Slash. too coincidentally that slash gets in his friends exband who is signed to a development deal with geffen records. Keep in mind David Geffen gave Slash his nickname when Slash was a kid cause Slash's dad was the art director at Geffen records. my point is nothing is what it seems. Its one big advertisement campaign. Being in a band is almost as bad as running for office. David had a cool story how the Eagles were formed too by Don Henley. Don was already signed but the recod comany felt that if he had a band he could sell more products so they put the Eagles together. Its all about money. The music business cares less about integrity or music. I suppose thats why all these little girls are whored out to become the next pop sensation.

a band from my area had the opportunity(coughs) to be contacted from a major label. A label notorious for being slimey. I think they had a huge litigation with Atryu. Anyways basicially, record label wanted 5 grand up front to be assigned a manager. And an additional 5 grand to be paid within a year on monthly payments. So 10 grand to be part of their "development deal" The manager would in turn work with the band for the year. All recording done while developing the product also is paid by the band. At the end of the year said label would review the material and decide to sign you to the next level. From there , there was alot more to it. The financials sounded really bad. They told them "oh and ditch the bassist. he looks like a 60 year old hobo." The band didnt pursue the deal. Things seem alot more different than back in the day. At least back then record companies paid for it up front and they were more apt to pursue a bands success since they invest in them upfront. Now adays they are less subtle about having their hand out for money.

unfortunately I think there is a lot to the whole younger stigma. I still rock out though. Dont care about success. I know its not going to happen. I know at this point, I dont want it to . I have nicer things than alot of "signed bands" a 401k, a roof over my head. I just read an interview with the singer of Soil and Drowning pool who said in his career he has yet to make a dime from being famous. Every amount of money has went to what is owed. That is sad. At least everything I owe is from something tangible.

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:19 pm

BLOODROOT wrote:

ML Tib wrote:

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

There is a word for people that judge you based on gear.... Posers.

Lanning, I had you all wrong. You're cool in my book based on the statement.

unfortunately the entertainment world is not synonymous with integrity though. Its all built on lies and deceit.

a band from my area had the opportunity(coughs) to be contacted from a major label. A label notorious for being slimey. I think they had a huge litigation with Atryu. Anyways basicially, record label wanted 5 grand up front to be assigned a manager. And an additional 5 grand to be paid within a year on monthly payments. So 10 grand to be part of their "development deal" The manager would in turn work with the band for the year. All recording done while developing the product also is paid by the band. At the end of the year said label would review the material and decide to sign you to the next level. From there , there was alot more to it. The financials sounded really bad. They told them "oh and ditch the bassist. he looks like a 60 year old hobo." The band didnt pursue the deal. Things seem alot more different than back in the day. At least back then record companies paid for it up front and they were more apt to pursue a bands success since they invest in them upfront. Now adays they are less subtle about having their hand out for money.
I still rock out though. Dont care about success. I know its not going to happen. I know at this point, I dont want it to . I have nicer things than alot of "signed bands" a 401k, a roof over my head. I just read an interview with the singer of Soil and Drowning pool who said in his career he has yet to make a dime from being famous. Every amount of money has went to what is owed. That is sad. At least everything I owe is from something tangible.

Granted, that last paragraph made me reminisce about our reunion. All the BS I had to put up with the singer. I had a guy from an indy label contact me wanting to reissue our SST stuff. We couldn't because we don't own the rights to the recordings. That's what you get when the leader did a "handshake deal."

Anyway the singer though "Oh we can make it still, just play every show that comes our way." I told him "no" we aren't going to pull a Van Halen, and I'm not mortgaging my house or gutting my pension and 401K to do so. Hell even the guy from the Indy label told him "it was allot of work." My job at Boeing at the time was cake. Just like my current job. Get paid decent, and I don't work hard to get it. Finally I decided quitting was the only option to stop the stupidity. Even today my old bass player is still struggling with it. He tours, but I don't think he makes much money.

Heck I saw Vitus a few months back, someone said "they finally made it." Not with 200 people at a show they didn't. But I'm sure they sold the place out in NYC with Down being the headliner.

My idea of making it is being able to fly in this..Not a tour bus.

http://www.led-zeppelin.org/reference/index.php?m=starship

Having 1000s of groupies. she would have worked for me.

Living in a plush mansion.

Ohh and the most important of making it in the music biz...

I don't think Metallica has had it as good as Zeppelin, but I could be wrong

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12280 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

that reminded me. I have heard that a few times "do you have a house you can mortgage or a 401k you can cash to finance this deal." even one guy said "you have nice cars too, are they paid for? You can get title for cash" I think I have heard a lot of variation to being poor. I can do that easy enough by myself. I realize you have to spend money to make money and take chances in life but when it seems to good to be true, it is too good to be true. I am not a risk taker. I dont like the odds. I figure if someone thinks my music has a "good chance" making lots of money that someone else can put up the money for it. If its not worthy so be it. I had fun making it. Why do I have to be the bankroll. They are the smart ones in the business of making money. I just play guitar. How is it I have to be the financial institution, marketing guy, songwriter, promoter and live musician? Music business to me = I do music they do the business. I think being a musician was a lot more fun being naive. Some one once told me to not only play guitar but to learn all you can about the business. Everytime I learn something new, I just get more jaded and less likely to exert any energy towards it.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13400 Location: Earth

The only thing I can say to that is I'm happy that I have the means to make it work on my own without a label. Maybe that's why I'm comfortable shrugging off the odds and don't listen to the guys who give these interviews. Wink

I do know the farther I get into it and every time I fall down and have to pick back up and fix an issue I see a lot of BS that people seem to think is real. You only really learn in this business by failing and trying again.

Joined: 22 Feb 2010 Posts: 800 Location: Upstate NY

BLOODROOT wrote:

I recently watched a documentary on David Geffen. He told this story about the success of GNR... He said he made one call to MTV and had welcome to the jungle video played on rotation at 10 pm time frame and the cd started selling like hot cakes into platinum status.
Its all about money. The music business cares less about integrity or music. I suppose thats why all these little girls are whored out to become the next pop sensation.

I don't mean to correct Mr. Geffen but that's not the way I remember it. I also don't claim to have any "insider knowledge" but I've been selling music for various distributors since '85 and remember pushing this album into retail outlets at the time.

In the '80s MTv had a show called Smash or Trash, or something similar, where videos from new bands would get the thumbs up/thumbs down treatment. I'm positive that when Welcome to the Jungle was featured on this show it was labeled as trash and set aside. It wasn't until the song/video for Sweet Child o Mine came out as a single almost a year later, shooting to #1 on Billboard in a couple of weeks, that the LP took off. Only THEN, was Welcome to the Jungle given another listen and began its own climb up the Billboard chart.
Not to mention Appetite for Destruction came out originally and primarily as an LP, not a cd.

On another note: only in the music biz will an 18 year old, banging out some chords, get treated as a rock god; and then 20 years later, when he actually has the talent, knowledge and experience to craft a well-written song, he'll get tossed aside for the next crop of "the current trend".

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12280 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

radcad10 wrote:

BLOODROOT wrote:

I recently watched a documentary on David Geffen. He told this story about the success of GNR... He said he made one call to MTV and had welcome to the jungle video played on rotation at 10 pm time frame and the cd started selling like hot cakes into platinum status.
Its all about money. The music business cares less about integrity or music. I suppose thats why all these little girls are whored out to become the next pop sensation.

I don't mean to correct Mr. Geffen but that's not the way I remember it. I also don't claim to have any "insider knowledge" but I've been selling music for various distributors since '85 and remember pushing this album into retail outlets at the time.

In the '80s MTv had a show called Smash or Trash, or something similar, where videos from new bands would get the thumbs up/thumbs down treatment. I'm positive that when Welcome to the Jungle was featured on this show it was labeled as trash and set aside. It wasn't until the song/video for Sweet Child o Mine came out as a single almost a year later, shooting to #1 on Billboard in a couple of weeks, that the LP took off. Only THEN, was Welcome to the Jungle given another listen and began its own climb up the Billboard chart.
Not to mention Appetite for Destruction came out originally and primarily as an LP, not a cd.

On another note: only in the music biz will an 18 year old, banging out some chords, get treated as a rock god; and then 20 years later, when he actually has the talent, knowledge and experience to craft a well-written song, he'll get tossed aside for the next crop of "the current trend".

Possibly could be right with the tune. I think David was just trying to prove that when it comes to the music business he has clout. The whole show was about how Geffen went from a boy in the Brooklyn to a king in the entertainment business. After he started Dreamworks with Spielberg and Katzenberg he became a billionaire and even financed a large portion of Obamas campaign. The whole show was basically painted a pretty picture how a @#$%&$@ man from the 70s built an empire from nothing. I just used the story he told to show how not everything is as it seems .

being signed in the music business is almost like partaking in the oldest trick in the trade. You turn trix for your pimp. they talk the game of taking care of you best interests for a lions share cut of the pie. When you get old and worn out, tossed aside an get some new talent. I figure they want the young ones cause they can be manipulated more easily and steal from them right under their blind noses. The older the talent gets the more wise they get they the game and cut out the middle man more and more. Time to move on to more unsuspecting prey at that time.

Joined: 09 Nov 2009 Posts: 75

Is there an age limit to rock?
I don't know...I was about 4, riding my Big Wheel in the house, and I first heard Bowie's Suffragette, and Mick Ronson's lead guitar. I was hooked. Then the next few days I heard Bowie Pinups, Diamond Dogs and Hunky Dory. Then bam! My sister played Alice Cooper's Billion Dollar Babies and Killer! I don't know, is there an age limit to rock? Is four-years-old to young? Wahi'

...wisdom

Joined: 11 Mar 2011 Posts: 343

I didn't read the article yet, but to comment on the theme of pursuing a music career after 30 - why not? Wes Montgomery is one of the greatest jazz guitar legends who every lived, and didn't start his recording career until his 30's. Same with acoustic guitar master Michael Hedges (ok, late 20's, but s#%t didn't get real until his 30's).

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:46 am

Grim Reaper wrote:

helltone wrote:

Try telling that to this guy. Laughing

right!!

But, i think he already had a contract before he was 30...just sayin

I'm glad you said "think" Because he formed Motorhead @ 30. It was 2 years later when he got his record contract. He is now 67.

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 14502

.........and GnR got a big push from having "Welcome To The Jungle" included in one of the "Dirty Harry" flicks. I think it was "The Dead Pool".

Watching the movie, I recall thinking "who the hell are those guys?"

Joined: 19 Mar 2012 Posts: 1582

Yes it was The Dead Pool, & the only Great bands I can think of are all over the age of 30 Confused

...I mean yes technically you could say most of them got signed when they were in their 20's ,but I can think of some Great albums some bands wrote when they were in their 30's, below 70 IQ type statement but this is also coming from 3 Days Grace, Nuff said Rolling Eyes

...Those guys have just handful of catchy songs I might hum too in the ride but that's about it , it all sounds the same with them, would not purchase their album , even tho I have seen them live but they were an "Opening band" & my reason for going to the show was not them..& not to say anythings wrong with an opening band , but coming from them , these guys make it sound like they are the Shiznit, when in fact they just talk a lot of it, gimme a break..

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13400 Location: Earth

You can't listen to what the 3 Days Grace guys say anyway. After some digging, I found that they have been together since 1992 (started under a different name) and "I Hate Everything About You" the first real breakout song that meant anything to them didn't come out until 2003. They had some success here in Canada prior to that but it was much easier to do that 10 years ago here.

What I'm getting at here is these clowns didn't really start their careers until their 30s because everything prior to that was demos, low end releases and mostly touring Canada, which is what many of us up here are doing now. They are being hypocritical to say the least. You can't take the smoke and mirrors of the music industry as facts until you know the whole story. If someone says something, you don't even know if they really said it or are having what they said spun a different way. Don't believe everything you read.

Joined: 19 Mar 2012 Posts: 1582

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

You can't listen to what the 3 Days Grace guys say anyway. After some digging, I found that they have been together since 1992 (started under a different name) and "I Hate Everything About You" the first real breakout song that meant anything to them didn't come out until 2003. They had some success here in Canada prior to that but it was much easier to do that 10 years ago here.

What I'm getting at here is these clowns didn't really start their careers until their 30s because everything prior to that was demos, low end releases and mostly touring Canada, which is what many of us up here are doing now. They are being hypocritical to say the least. You can't take the smoke and mirrors of the music industry as facts until you know the whole story. If someone says something, you don't even know if they really said it or are having what they said spun a different way. Don't believe everything you read.

That's True , can't believe they said all of that unless you hear it from their mouth yourself , even if it was published in a Mag or wherever, ya never know it the story has been fabricated or molded into something just to make a deadline or good read..just saying if it was as ignorant as he mentioned , then I so disagree from those guys about the age thing..

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:45 pm

Did any of guys know that Judas Priest were all in their 30s when they really made it. Heck Glenn was 28 when Rocka Rolla came out, Halford was 26. KK was 25. When they really made it with Screaming for Vengeance, all were in their 30s, with Glenn being about 35.

Joined: 09 Mar 2004 Posts: 3088 Location: Frozen North

at 54 it seems to me age is what ppl see on the outside , you are still the same person inside you allways have been , i get alot of " you listen to that ? " my reply has become what after 50 i;m suppost to listen to opera? it usaly shuts em up

Joined: 30 Nov 2003 Posts: 10625 Location: Canada

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

...
What I'm getting at here is these clowns didn't really start their careers until their 30s because everything prior to that was demos, low end releases and mostly touring Canada...

Um... say what? That IS a career, just not a successful one, yet.

Joined: 22 Feb 2010 Posts: 800 Location: Upstate NY

Jim6 wrote:

.........and GnR got a big push from having "Welcome To The Jungle" included in one of the "Dirty Harry" flicks. I think it was "The Dead Pool".

Watching the movie, I recall thinking "who the hell are those guys?"

and Jim Carrey played the lead singer of the band.

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:12 am

All I can say is that, if you get a chance to see Carabi...do it. I saw him
last year opening for LA Guns.................bought him a beer later......Great show and he was a really cool guy. Don't care how old he is and The execs that have that attitude.........are Dumbazzes.

Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 2059 Location: Wallingford, CT

wstoll wrote:

All I can say is that, if you get a chance to see Carabi...do it. I saw him
last year opening for LA Guns.................bought him a beer later......Great show and he was a really cool guy. Don't care how old he is and The execs that have that attitude.........are Dumbazzes.

I saw him on the same tour, too, Wayne and agree with you 100%. Corabi really kicked some ass.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13400 Location: Earth

Armitage wrote:

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

...
What I'm getting at here is these clowns didn't really start their careers until their 30s because everything prior to that was demos, low end releases and mostly touring Canada...

Um... say what? That IS a career, just not a successful one, yet.

I get what you're saying. That's where I'm at right now in my career. I'm just starting to see some light now in my late 30s but that would mean we're all reading into his statement.

I thought he meant that you can't make it in your 30s so if you don't have a killer deal and aren't a rockstar by your mid 20s to just hang it up. Did I misunderstand? Because if it's the other way then I would have to agree.

I think where I disagree with what he said is this. They have been together as a band since 1992. They used to be called Groundswell though but changed to Three Days Grace in 95 or 97... I can't remember which. So they have been together FOREVER.

The part I don't agree with on the career side is, if you have been in the same band for that long and have had the ability to make albums and grow to a big band that is one thing. But if you have been in different bands and have toured a lot and been payed enough to survive but are not in one band and not a rockstar and in your 30s then in his book you should hang it up? Maybe I'm reading his statement wrong because by what I read into it is, guys doing what I have done should just give up. I take offense to that and think it's BS.

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12280 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

I think everyone is getting all their feathers ruffled for no reason. Its just what the guy said. Hard telling what he was thinking. perhaps it was taken out of context or when he said it , it was meant to insult someone he knew would catch wind of it. Who knows. either way. there are a lot of bands out there and less money going around these days. you really have to stick out to get in front of the pack. look, age, song material, new flavor of the month all apart of that puzzle. If you dont think so, you are mistaken but you have the right to believe what you want. There are always exceptions to the rules but that niche is even less chance. I didn't want us to argue over it. Obviously there is some truth to this age thing or it wouldn't have happened to corabi. I am in no way telling anyone to give up. Just posted some info and opinions.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13400 Location: Earth

Totally understand what you're saying Chris but the thing I don't like is that people seem to think you need to be a rockstar and be in a platinum selling band to have a career in music. That's so far from the truth that's it's not even worth debating. You can teach guitar at a local shop for a living and have a career in music. You can tech for a band and have a career in music. You can jump in the van with your bros and work construction jobs between tours to make ends meet and have a career in music. Doing what Three Days Grace does and having a career in music are not synonymous. What he's saying is a bit arrogant regardless of who it was meant for.

Joined: 30 Nov 2003 Posts: 10625 Location: Canada

helltone wrote:

Try telling that to this guy. Laughing

Interesting guy, he's been playing in bands since he was 16 and had his first Single in 1965...