Guitars

Joined: 23 Nov 2005 Posts: 8293 Location: Ontario, Canada

I got an SM57 and an Art Tube MP and my recordings sound like digital fizzy crap. The tone in the room is exactly what I want but I'm not hearing it in the recordings. Tried moving the mic around. Playing with every setting and its still not good enough to make a clip to demo my sound.

Its woofy and the presence is fizzy. I'm gonna try this setup at practice tommorow. Its most likely something I messed up but seeing as the rhythm guy records our jams in reaper and it sounds excellent I must have something mucked up.

I listened to lots of recorded clips on YouTube and the quality of mine are not even in the same league. I swear if I hear this recording blind I wouldnt even think it was my own rig.

Joined: 21 Sep 2010 Posts: 466

I've played this battle for a long time. First thing to do is move the mic about 2 in from the grill cloth and move the mic just off side about where the cone meets the speaker. Then, turn your gain down some. Those 2 things will help tremendously. You have to remember, a mic hears things like you would with one ear right up next to the grill cloth, so the sound you hear in the room will not be the sound in the mic. The best way to experiment with recording tone is get some headphones that will knock down some of the outside noise so you can hear what is coming from the mic. You'll find that even the slightest change in mic placement will drastically change the tone coming into the headphones.

One thing that will throw you off in the beginning is how little gain it takes to make it sound really distorted through a mic. You just gotta keep jacking with it to get it to sound good. The other thing you must do to get a great tone is double your guitar tracks and pan them far left and right. That helps a lot as well. There are a million tricks, but that should get you in somewhat the right direction.

Joined: 07 Aug 2007 Posts: 2755 Location: Southeast MI

koury73 wrote:

I've played this battle for a long time. First thing to do is move the mic about 2 in from the grill cloth and move the mic just off side about where the cone meets the speaker. Then, turn your gain down some. Those 2 things will help tremendously. You have to remember, a mic hears things like you would with one ear right up next to the grill cloth, so the sound you hear in the room will not be the sound in the mic. The best way to experiment with recording tone is get some headphones that will knock down some of the outside noise so you can hear what is coming from the mic. You'll find that even the slightest change in mic placement will drastically change the tone coming into the headphones.

One thing that will throw you off in the beginning is how little gain it takes to make it sound really distorted through a mic. You just gotta keep jacking with it to get it to sound good. The other thing you must do to get a great tone is double your guitar tracks and pan them far left and right. That helps a lot as well. There are a million tricks, but that should get you in somewhat the right direction.

Good advice. I use a SM57 with a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 interface. Mic position seems to be key to everything. I use mine with the mic a couple inches off the grillcloth, at a bit of an angle, and definitely not on center with the speaker. Mess with the distance of the mic from the grillcloth, start with it just off center, and move it towards or away from center, then mess a little bit with the angle of the mic. A little off-axis seems to roll off highs if I remember correctly (it's been a while). One track sounds good from what I've done, then I double track, and it gets huge. I've never used that interface, but I had cheaper options before, and they were just super fizzy and nasty sounding.

Joined: 21 Sep 2010 Posts: 466

Thats a good point too, I was previously running a behringer analog mixer to a motu 2408 which is a nice interface and my sound was always fizzy like that. I recently bought an Alesis studio 32 mixer and the pre's in it were way better than the behringer. My recording process immediatly improved right there and it's something I wasn't thinking about considering I had a good interface. Its got me thinking about getting a nice mic-pre to see if there is an even better change.

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:56 pm

Presence, Gain and Volume are everything - in the room when it sounds like ass...is when it sounds badass on tape!!!

Joined: 23 Nov 2005 Posts: 8293 Location: Ontario, Canada

Those are all great ideas. I won't quit just yet and I have 30 days to return the interface. So far I've been running it into my stealth pedal. It is a USB interface. Perhaps I could try eliminating the Stealth pedal and just using the interface. I like the stealth pedal for its I detectable latency though.

I liked the single ear analogy. I will certainly try mic positioning with nice sound isolating headphones on.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13402 Location: Earth

Also, I have to ask, and don't take offense because I don't know your experience. Do you know how to properly mic a cab?

Here is how I do it. Get down on to speaker level and use a flashlight. Find where the center of the dust cap is on the cone and while playing some chords (or have a friend play them) listen to the edges of the cone. Rotate your ear around the edge of the cone. You'll find a "Sweet Spot" where the sound is at its most neutral tonewise and its loudest. Then put your finger on that spot or a piece of tape so you know where it is. Then place your mic facing that spot but make sure it's not pointed straight at the center of the dust cap in the middle of the speaker. It should be about 1" off center to the dustcap at where the cone starts to flare out. You'll have to experiment with a few positions likely. Also you can turn the mic at a 45º angle to the speaker grille cloth for an off access placement which will further bleed off the high and add some depth and warmth.

Just 1/2" off and you can go from killer sound to total crap if your mic isn't placed right. I marked mine off with with silver Sharpie once we found the right spot. Now, no sound guy can screw it up. Point the mic in the box and you're done. Here is a photo of my cab.

Joined: 13 Feb 2004 Posts: 5634 Location: phoenix az.

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

Also, I have to ask, and don't take offense because I don't know your experience. Do you know how to properly mic a cab?

Here is how I do it. Get down on to speaker level and use a flashlight. Find where the center of the dust cap is on the cone and while playing some chords (or have a friend play them) listen to the edges of the cone. Rotate your ear around the edge of the cone. You'll find a "Sweet Spot" where the sound is at its most neutral tonewise and its loudest. Then put your finger on that spot or a piece of tape so you know where it is. Then place your mic facing that spot but make sure it's not pointed straight at the center of the dust cap in the middle of the speaker. It should be about 1" off center to the dustcap at where the cone starts to flare out. You'll have to experiment with a few positions likely. Also you can turn the mic at a 45º angle to the speaker grille cloth for an off access placement which will further bleed off the high and add some depth and warmth.

Just 1/2" off and you can go from killer sound to total crap if your mic isn't placed right. I marked mine off with with silver Sharpie once we found the right spot. Now, no sound guy can screw it up. Point the mic in the box and you're done. Here is a photo of my cab.

good thinking

Joined: 03 May 2008 Posts: 6668 Location: Minnesota

I'm going to try out the "Jet Direct" from Jet City for live use. it's a Mic Sim that goes in line between the head and the cab.

Joined: 04 Jun 2012 Posts: 366 Location: South-West Ohio

When Iw as recording in studios, one thing use dot like was a mike as lanning describes, tehn another about 10 feet away. I'd mixthe two together, and pan those hard right about 3 o clock right, then repeat for a second rythm track, and pan hard left to 9 o clock. Sounded killer to me.

Joined: 12 Oct 2004 Posts: 3847 Location: BOSTON

mic placement for sure.

the suggestion of getting headphones on and moving the mic around while playing is where i've had the best success. the closer you get to the center of the speaker, the brighter and sizzlier it will get. as you move away it darkens up and potentially seems less overdriven.

obviously it may not be practical to wear headphones, move a mic and play at the same time, due to wires, amp volume etc, but in my opinion that's the foundation of a good recorded guitar tone.

some of my favorite recorded tones i've gotten have been through a dumbass little behringer modeling amp, not too loud, with less gain than i would normally use. but mic placement was everything.

then double that shit

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12280 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

make sure the phantom power is turned off and the limit is off and the gain down. You might be overlaoding and clipping the tube.

why is the stealth pedal in the chain again ?
Unless you are using it for amp sims, take it out of the gain. go mic to preamp to computer.

splug some speakers into the output of the tube preamp and run your mic to it, mic your guitar and see what it sounds like through the speakers. it should sound close on the recording. if it sounds good on the speaker and bad on the recording, the tube might be bad from the get go or the preamp. delete the drivers and reinstall them.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13402 Location: Earth

Graunke wrote:

I'm going to try out the "Jet Direct" from Jet City for live use. it's a Mic Sim that goes in line between the head and the cab.

Which is why I LOVE my Hughes & Kettner. Has the Red Box built in. No more mic'ing! YAY!

Joined: 12 Oct 2004 Posts: 3847 Location: BOSTON

BLOODROOT wrote:

splug

great band name!

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:53 am

Would these rules apply to when I record on Garage Band? Im gonna buy one of those mics that plug into the ipod.

Joined: 07 Aug 2007 Posts: 2755 Location: Southeast MI

al wrote:

mic placement for sure.

the suggestion of getting headphones on and moving the mic around while playing is where i've had the best success. the closer you get to the center of the speaker, the brighter and sizzlier it will get. as you move away it darkens up and potentially seems less overdriven.

obviously it may not be practical to wear headphones, move a mic and play at the same time, due to wires, amp volume etc, but in my opinion that's the foundation of a good recorded guitar tone.

some of my favorite recorded tones i've gotten have been through a dumbass little behringer modeling amp, not too loud, with less gain than i would normally use. but mic placement was everything.

then double that shit

Didn't/don't you have a Diezel? I'd assume that sounds pretty good under a mic!

Joined: 12 Oct 2004 Posts: 3847 Location: BOSTON

GuitarGoat wrote:

al wrote:

some of my favorite recorded tones i've gotten have been through a dumbass little behringer modeling amp, not too loud, with less gain than i would normally use. but mic placement was everything.

Didn't/don't you have a Diezel? I'd assume that sounds pretty good under a mic!

absolutely! some of my favorite recordings. when i'm writing by myself with the drum machine at home, i use my little behringer, and i've got it down to a science.

the Diezel sounds amazing right off the bat every time. i could probably run around the room with an SM57 hanging out of my ass and that amp would sound good!

Joined: 23 Nov 2005 Posts: 8293 Location: Ontario, Canada

I got a rough passable clip finished just now. Gonna go make something to eat now. If anyone can suggest how t post a Wav file here I'll let you hear it. Its very bass heavy but it sounds decent enough. If I cut the resonance on the head it would tame it nicely.

Thanks everyone for the help and suggstions. It really helped a lot. I was going about it all wrong. No big surprise to me though.

I was able to take something from everyones post and make it work. It sounds better than the Cab Sim out too btw. Cool

Joined: 14 Jul 2008 Posts: 1285

SM57's and all mics with a cardioid pickup pattern (heart shaped or unidirectional) exhibit a property known as proximity effect. Basically it means the closer the mic gets to the sound source the more bass it adds. So a lot of the time you need less bass coming out of a close miced amp than you might think.

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:44 am

I have one of those tube pre amps. Don't push it to much, it'll distort the recording. They are o.k. for a cheapie but touchy. I use mine mostly for a headset mic.

Joined: 23 Nov 2005 Posts: 8293 Location: Ontario, Canada

I wonder if there is something sleightly more expensive that I should consider. Would like to keep it under or around $200 if I could. I picked up some tips from the sound guy in the band tonoight so I'm gonna take another crack at it tommorow.

Joined: 09 Mar 2009 Posts: 362

http://www.youtube.com/user/fearedse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maA1wGBX7ag

This guy's recordings always sound awesome, the impact of multiple tracking cannot be understated.

Also some proof tone is in the hands:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be9oMgWXC3g

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:36 pm

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

Graunke wrote:

I'm going to try out the "Jet Direct" from Jet City for live use. it's a Mic Sim that goes in line between the head and the cab.

Which is why I LOVE my Hughes & Kettner. Has the Red Box built in. No more mic'ing! YAY!

which model do you have, Lanning? i have the switchblade and it doesn't even have so much as a line out. very disappointing.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13402 Location: Earth

Brave Dave wrote:

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

Graunke wrote:

I'm going to try out the "Jet Direct" from Jet City for live use. it's a Mic Sim that goes in line between the head and the cab.

Which is why I LOVE my Hughes & Kettner. Has the Red Box built in. No more mic'ing! YAY!

which model do you have, Lanning? i have the switchblade and it doesn't even have so much as a line out. very disappointing.

I have the Tubemesiter 36 which has a built in Redbox. Some of the newer models are starting to incorporate the Redbox into them. You can always buy the Redbox separately to use with your Switchblade.

Joined: 21 Sep 2010 Posts: 466

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

Brave Dave wrote:

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

Graunke wrote:

I'm going to try out the "Jet Direct" from Jet City for live use. it's a Mic Sim that goes in line between the head and the cab.

Which is why I LOVE my Hughes & Kettner. Has the Red Box built in. No more mic'ing! YAY!

which model do you have, Lanning? i have the switchblade and it doesn't even have so much as a line out. very disappointing.

I have the Tubemesiter 36 which has a built in Redbox. Some of the newer models are starting to incorporate the Redbox into them. You can always buy the Redbox separately to use with your Switchblade.

The redbox pro is a sweet tool to have in the studio. I use it for a lot of recording, but not usually high gain. I think I picked it up for 60 bucks on ebay.