Guitar scale length, tone, tension and some ponderings

Joined: 04 Jun 2012 Posts: 349 Location: South-West Ohio

I've played dean ML's for the last 12 yearaor so I'd say. Over those 12 years, I have of course discoverd mny thigns about the way that I could shape my tone to my personal better liking - how I had a set up done, sring gauge, etc etc etc.

When I stopped playing as a serious form of income [in fact I stopped playing guitar for a year or so and played bass for a friends band for a bit, but thats another story]. When I started playing again [mainly for my own enjoyment] I wanted to work on being a better player. So I studied more theory, practiced scales, modes, and new techniques, but probably more than anything I worked on better rythm. I have been practicing a lot of fast but complex [at least for me] rythm stuff and working very hard on getting it down. I want it to be clean, precise and concise.

Perhaps my tastes have changed over the years or perhaps I've matured some, or whatever, but now 've noticed that as I play faster, I feel like I need more string tension. I feel like when I'm playing fast rythms that include string skipping and such that teh shorter scale neck [24 3/4"] is allowing too much string movement from too little tension. I was debating moving up a guage in strings.

I went to a store with teh intent of talking to a tech about a new set up with higher guage strings, and while there, played a few guitars. I had a revelation - I was playing better with guitar thatt had a slighter high string tension, and upon further inspection noted they were all of a longer 25 1/2" scale. So then i went back and forth between some short scale and long scale guitars, and regardless of string gauge I suddenly seemed to be doing better with longer scale.

So now I'm debating selling my ML's in favor of a longer scale [the Dave Mustaine "V" I played today was pretty good].

So all of this comes to this;
Has anyone considered scale length and the effect on thier tone?
Has anyone had one scale and decided to switch to the other?
And most importantly, am I nuts?

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

You are not nuts at all. This is one reason that 25.5" is popular for shredders. You get higher tension with thinner strings for starters. You can use 9s in A440 and you get the right tension and lighter touch which facilitates less movement and use of muscles which also translates to speed. (not accurace because you need to learn that, but speed).

I don't really like 24.75" scale guitars. My one Gibson is but that guitar is special to me so I don't mind it as much. I have to use 12-56 though in tuning to D standard to maintain the proper tension for playing.

I have a heavy right hand and so I need good tension. My Esoterik is 25.5" scale and I tune a step down but I use 11-54s to maintain good tension. I have considered 11-52, but that may be too light.

The other thing is the tension helps maintain tuning stability and intonation. I see a lot of guys tuning down and using (what I consider) inappropriate gauge strings for the tuning. Unless you have problems with your hands due to injury or arthritis, tuning to D standard or Drop C with 10s is really bad. 10's on top not so bad, but more for the lower strings. If you used 10-56 or something that then I can understand it but 10-52 just won't hack it.

That said, some guys like really light gauge strings and it's a personal preference. Yngwie uses 8's...

Either way before I get too long winded on this, your are right and higher tension will help you out and build more strength and endurance which is good in the long run.

Joined: 28 Sep 2012 Posts: 379 Location: Kent, UK

I think 10-52 in Drop C is fine. I've been down to Drop C# to play some Philip Sayce stuff on my strat when I had 10-46 on.
Felt sturdy enough to me.

Joined: 04 Jun 2012 Posts: 349 Location: South-West Ohio

for what its worth, I've always played in standard tuning [eadgbe]. Currently using 9's on teh short scale [24 3/4"]. What I'm considering is going to 25.5" scale, same tuning. might also go up a guage as well.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

pariah2 wrote:

for what its worth, I've always played in standard tuning [eadgbe]. Currently using 9's on teh short scale [24 3/4"]. What I'm considering is going to 25.5" scale, same tuning. might also go up a guage as well.

The worst thing that could happen is you don't like the strings and try a different gauge. 25.5 with the same strings you use now will feel tighter. Instead of using regular 9's try hybrid 9's like the Slinkies. It's the top from 9's and bottom from 10s. It will feel nice and snappy.

longhurstgb wrote:

I think 10-52 in Drop C is fine. I've been down to Drop C# to play some Philip Sayce stuff on my strat when I had 10-46 on.
Felt sturdy enough to me.

When I was starting out playing I used to do that too. Until my hands got stronger and my technique evolved. Then it was way too light. With as hard as you say you play (by the look of the pick you destroyed) I'm surprised you stay in tune at all tuned down low with strings that thin. I like how light strings feel but they just don't work well for me. I may try a set again for fun but I know the result will feel gross.

Joined: 19 Oct 2009 Posts: 2902 Location: Norway

I borrowed a 7 string Agile for a while, with 27 " scale. It was awesome.
The scale length makes a huge difference, to me atleast.

I didn't need as thick strings as i do with my 25,5 " guitar.
Already been said, but yeah... Smile

Whenever i try to play my Dean with 24 3/4 " scale, the strings always feel too loose, and it just feels very weird playing it.

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:15 pm

I have short fingers, so I like the old Fender 24" scale. Back in the day, it also came with a 7 1/2" fingerboard radius. I have to use a different style of playing on a longer scale with a flatter radius, like a Dean. I much prefer the short scale and smaller radius neck.

The sound doesn't matter that much, if you can't play the instrument!

Unfortunately I also don't care for the high prices on bolt-on neck guitars, like Fender, because that style of construction was designed to be cheap (much less labor).

Joined: 13 Feb 2004 Posts: 5603 Location: phoenix az.

I tune to c# standard and I use 10-52.But I have very low action and dont play hard at all.I think the harder you press down the less dexterity you have.most people play my guitars and sound out of tune cause I also have mega hudge jumbo frets.I dont like to feel the fretboard at all.My guitars feel scalloped without the scallop.I think with the longer scale length you get better tuning stability with lower tunings.My dean vs with the c# tuning on the e string ...well my tuner hates it.lol but im used to the scale.I would like to try a baritone V soon as I could find one.I say use whats comfortable for you.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

RobBouchardDeanml wrote:

I tune to c# standard and I use 10-52.But I have very low action and dont play hard at all.I think the harder you press down the less dexterity you have.most people play my guitars and sound out of tune cause I also have mega hudge jumbo frets.I dont like to feel the fretboard at all.My guitars feel scalloped without the scallop.I think with the longer scale length you get better tuning stability with lower tunings.My dean vs with the c# tuning on the e string ...well my tuner hates it.lol but im used to the scale.I would like to try a baritone V soon as I could find one.I say use whats comfortable for you.

Yeah you hit the nail on the head. It's all personal preference. I used to have a really light touch, more finesse... Now I'm a bruiser and kinda just force my will on my guitar Laughing

Joined: 20 Dec 2007 Posts: 4913 Location: Brooklyn, NY

I play 27" scale viper tuned to Baritone tuning, and even without my 13-65s the sound difference is very apparent. It's got this strange weight to it. I guess because it would be E1 instead of E2 open. Not so sure, but bass strings definitely augment the sound.

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:40 pm

well i use 10-52 tuned to D standard or drop C, prefer the shorter necks for bending.

got a bc rich mick thompson wich i used to play alott on, now the thing doesnt even get off the wall, it's abitt longer so yea, i've changed trough the years too

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

I bought a set of EB 10-52 to try on my guitar which is 25.5" scale in Drop C. It was gross and just about unplayable. I don't know how guys do it with light strings like that on the lower 3 strings. Light top can be OK but the bottoms? No way, not for me.