Adding muscle to my sound

Joined: 04 Jun 2012 Posts: 347 Location: South-West Ohio

Anyone who reads my infrequent "tone" posts has probably picked up on the fact that I'm always messing with my EQ and tone/ISF shift trying to find a new tone and something really strikes me. For the last couple months I've been running my EQ something like bass 6 mids 5 highs 7, with the ISF shift about 6. On a whim I thought it would be fun experimenting with EXTRME eq shifts, as in one on 10 and the others on like 2. The extreme bass sounded terrible - once I put it to a backing track wiht a bass guitar, it might as well have been all treble.

However the all mid was intereting.

At standng level it sounds all nasal, but when you get down on the ground so your ear is level with the speaker [as a mic would hear it] there were actually a ton of highs that you wouldn't hear normally at standing level. There also seemed to be alot of harmonics and overtones that were brought out by the higher mid EQ that I can't explain. Granted, it didn't sound amazing, but there was definately something to it. I was intrigued and kept at it.

I shifted my ISF/EQ shift to 10, which makes my mid range more truly "mid" and less low mid - the effect is more vintage british tone, cuts out extreme highs and presence and cuts back on the extreme thump of bass. I needed a little bit more "cut" but really only for definition of the notes, and I wanted to blend the bass to the low mids and high mids, but liked the lack of the overwhelming thump that had previously been seeming to crush out all other frequencies.

What I ended up with after about 2 hours of messing with various eq's based on this and checking them against the backing track was this; I brought the bass to about 4, dialed the mids back to 8 [still really high] and the highs up to about 6. Now I can't quite explain it, but there are all these really cool overtone harmonics coming out that are just amazing and I'm truly diggin this sound.

So later today I was searching around the forum and stumbled onto this post by drewmusicman totally by accident;

drewmusicman wrote:

you want a good modern metal tone? easy. keep bass not higher than noon. presense is your enemey at high volumes, get rid of it. little to no presence. get your mids to atleast 60% if not more. theres no way around it, if you want tight clear tone you need mids. put your trebble around the same area as your mids. next and most importantly gain. more gain, more saturation, more mushy, dial that s#%t back 75% or less.

Now he and I haven't always agreed 100% on everything but *wow* was this pretty spot on. So in essence he's suggesting a bass of 5, mids of 6 and a high of 5-6. I ended up with bass 4, mids 8, highs 6. from my old EQ I shifted down bass and upped the mids substantially. I am REALLY digging this sound but you HAVE to hear it in the right context; at ear level, with a bass guitar/backing track, and preferably louder than midnight bedroom jamming volume. Now by itself it is not really amazing, but in that context it just cuts through a mix like a razor, adds a lot of definition and adds a LOT of muscle to the sound. To my ears, its sounds a lot like a slightly warmer "brown sound". Its seems to definre the guitar without stepping on the other instruments frequencies, and also reinfoces the idea to me that the guitar really is a mdrange instrument.

I'd suggest anyone who likes to play with thier tone to give this one a try,and remember - EAR level [or played back through stereo or computer speakers], and with a backing track.

Thanks for reading!

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

I'll tell you what I tell everyone else who wants more muscle in their tone. Crank the amp up. You need to get those speakers moving and start pushing some air. Tone and EQ completely changes. You can boost or cut whatever frequencies you want but you won't get that super meaty heavy chunk until you put some a$$ behind you. Then you can turn your gain down a bit as well. Even SS amps sound better cranked up. You have to get those speakers working. If you're in a condo and don't have that ability due to neighbors you can always try and build a pillow fort around the amp when recording. It will sound better this way.

Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:17 pm

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

I'll tell you what I tell everyone else who wants more muscle in their tone. Crank the amp up. You need to get those speakers moving and start pushing some air. Tone and EQ completely changes. You can boost or cut whatever frequencies you want but you won't get that super meaty heavy chunk until you put some a$$ behind you. Then you can turn your gain down a bit as well. Even SS amps sound better cranked up. You have to get those speakers working. If you're in a condo and don't have that ability due to neighbors you can always try and build a pillow fort around the amp when recording. It will sound better this way.

He lanning would that also work on a randall rx120D because i really had that feeling that the amp clears up after you go past 3, and with 120watss that's already alott of noise,i thought it was me, but now you got me thinkin...

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

It's less the amp itself with SS amps, but more about making use of the ability of the cabinet/speakers to push air and for the EQ curve of the speakers themselves. For instance, the big debate over if a V30 is better sounding with some amps than a Greenback or a GT75. In my experience I have learned, if you're not cranking that sucker up, what difference does it really make? The speakers are designed to be pushed and produce a certain tone. It's like a 2 stroke dirt bike. They will work at all speeds and gears but they shine in the "Powerband", that's where the power is.

With tube amps it's a little more interactive because of the power tubes and preamp tubes working together and the tone changes even more.

If you go to a store to buy a tube amp, make sure they let you crank it for a minute so you know what you're getting yourself into. If they won't then tell them you may be returning it when you get it home and crank it and can hear what it really sounds like.

When I play at home in my condo, for example I just kinda get a useable tone and don't think about it too much because I know even on 1watt on my H&K cranked up it's still really loud for an apartment and at lower volume it's just gonna sound OK at best. I can't even use my stage rig in the house and have it sound good. I just set the amp where it's playable and the go about practicing/writing.

When I get it up to band volumes that is where I actually adjust the EQ and worry about my tone. This is why the POD and all those other simulators are kinda cool because you can get a simulation of a cranked amp. Otherwise they wouldn't advertise that ability.

I think stage volume is less about hearing yourself and more about getting the right tone. That's why I feel anything over 50 watts is kinda ridiculous for just about everything except HUGE outdoor festivals.

This is why you see a lot of guys buy awesome amps and then sell them saying they aren't happy with the tone, yet they can't push them properly to get the tone those amps were designed to produce.

Joined: 04 Jun 2012 Posts: 347 Location: South-West Ohio

I agree 100%.

I had my avatar cab loade with hellatones and it made a IMMEDIATE differance, and if you remember correctly, I'm ALL about the power soak for tone.

Joined: 30 Nov 2003 Posts: 10589 Location: Canada

Most people with high gain heads never push their tube amps into power tube distortion. That's why so many high gain heads come with 6L6 and even KT88 power tubes, to keep them clean. EL34s distort much faster, but can sound muddy unless the amp was really well suited to them.

What a lot of guitarists confuse with power tube distortion is actually the phase inverter tube, and speaker distortion.

Another way to fatten up your tone is to turn your treble way down and your presence way up!

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

I'm not a big fan of powertube distortion either. I like loud and thick but not the power tube breakup. I'll usually run my amps right at the cusp of the breakup at where it has that "bloominess" but stays tight . I also believe in being conservative with the treble.

Joined: 29 Jul 2009 Posts: 1049 Location: charlottle nc

wow wasnt expecting my advice in this thread Laughing

glad it helped though.
Ive been all over the map myself before with tone, nothing like a good break through
Cool

Joined: 04 Jun 2012 Posts: 347 Location: South-West Ohio

I actually run my distortion at about "6" or 1 o clock which is pretty mild, but when power tube soaked, it roars and has a very classic hot rodded marshall 800 sound. that is also why I really need to do a playback - "listening" at that kind of volume requires earplugs which affect the sound and you are not hearing what is truly happening. The power soak also does cut some highs, which is also why I added some highs back in to get some cut.

Overall I'm pretty jazzed with the sound at the moment.

Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 817

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

I'll tell you what I tell everyone else who wants more muscle in their tone. Crank the amp up. You need to get those speakers moving and start pushing some air. Tone and EQ completely changes. You can boost or cut whatever frequencies you want but you won't get that super meaty heavy chunk until you put some a$$ behind you. Then you can turn your gain down a bit as well. Even SS amps sound better cranked up. You have to get those speakers working. If you're in a condo and don't have that ability due to neighbors you can always try and build a pillow fort around the amp when recording. It will sound better this way.

could not have said it better dude ...

Joined: 13 Feb 2004 Posts: 5601 Location: phoenix az.

I run an eq on my pedal board(mxr)and boost the mids a bit.Lannings right though you gotta get the speakers working to get any chunk.