Fractal vs Heads

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:55 pm

Ok, yes i'm thinking of making the switch to fractal. One to downsize my rack so it can go on the cab. Another, i don't have a truck, my old lady has an SUV which I can use but both won't fit.

Tone, yes i'm scared to death to switch to a modling amp, i've always been a boogie boy sense 93 or so.

So, is it worth the switch?

Pro's and Con's?

Dollar wise is it worth it?

i'll be using my boogie cab, but live probably just the monitors and front of house so i won't even need the cab live...

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

I used an AxeFx on the first DD EP. I liked it a lot but when it came time to use it live I didn't want to buy a whole FR/FR speaker setup, or a dedicated poweramp to work with my 4X12 so I sold it. Side by side with a head it wasn't as good. If you are playing live in a place where you know the soundman and you guys are friends then I wouldn't be concerned because DI it sounds great. If you have an in-ear rig (as we do now) then it's super easy too.

As far as the actual sound? At concert levels no one can tell the difference. I mean with a good sound guy you can run a L6 Spyder next to a JCM800 and the average fan can't tell you which amp is running. For recording it's great so there isn't a worry there either. The biggest pain in the a$$ is setting it up for your own use. The big bands out there using them all travel with production so they don't have to worry about not getting a good sound. You and I both know that doesn't translate to the average bar band user.

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:25 pm

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

I used an AxeFx on the first DD EP. I liked it a lot but when it came time to use it live I didn't want to buy a whole FR/FR speaker setup, or a dedicated poweramp to work with my 4X12 so I sold it. Side by side with a head it wasn't as good. If you are playing live in a place where you know the soundman and you guys are friends then I wouldn't be concerned because DI it sounds great. If you have an in-ear rig (as we do now) then it's super easy too.

As far as the actual sound? At concert levels no one can tell the difference. I mean with a good sound guy you can run a L6 Spyder next to a JCM800 and the average fan can't tell you which amp is running. For recording it's great so there isn't a worry there either. The biggest pain in the a$$ is setting it up for your own use. The big bands out there using them all travel with production so they don't have to worry about not getting a good sound. You and I both know that doesn't translate to the average bar band user.

agreed, maybe i'll just stick with what i got and save the $2,000 its gonna cost to switch...fugg it!!!!!!!!

uhaul is alot cheaper...

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

You know a lot of dudes down there, maybe try one out? I'm sure someone you know has one. The best sound you can get with them is to run one line DI and the other to an FR/FR monitor on stage. You can run one DI and the other to a cab with the cab sim turned off on that line but it will never sound the same as the DI line. Or you can just run it as a preamp and use one of your Boogies to power it and just mic it like you always do but then you're just lugging all that crap around. Or just put it in a rack case with a poweramp like a Mesa 90/90. There are a few options but if you're not running it DI you're kinda shooting yourself in the foot because that's how it sounds best.

Joined: 19 Mar 2012 Posts: 1581

Always wanted one, but looks like a LOT of Hassle, I am nit the most Computer savvy person

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:04 pm

right

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

You know a lot of dudes down there, maybe try one out? I'm sure someone you know has one. The best sound you can get with them is to run one line DI and the other to an FR/FR monitor on stage. You can run one DI and the other to a cab with the cab sim turned off on that line but it will never sound the same as the DI line. Or you can just run it as a preamp and use one of your Boogies to power it and just mic it like you always do but then you're just lugging all that crap around. Or just put it in a rack case with a poweramp like a Mesa 90/90. There are a few options but if you're not running it DI you're kinda shooting yourself in the foot because that's how it sounds best.

I'm just sticking old school, it's been good enough sense the 80's for me...

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:15 pm

It's a lot less hassle actually, with a HUGE gain in flexibility and tone shaping power.

If you simply wanna emulate your current rig, then it isn't cost effective. If you wanna add many things to your rig, while simplifying the switching side of things, then the fractal wins.

looking at your current rig Randy, Why not get a strobo stomp or something on your pedalboard, and a line 6 wireless for your pedal board and eliminate that massive rack? The furman could go too. That furman is nothing more than a rackmount power strip. You could either run an extension cord from your amp to your pedalboard, or to one of your band mates furmans. That would save you a lot of space and setup time. It would be a ton less cable too, which will sound better.

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:38 pm

www.DropD.net wrote:

It's a lot less hassle actually, with a HUGE gain in flexibility and tone shaping power.

If you simply wanna emulate your current rig, then it isn't cost effective. If you wanna add many things to your rig, while simplifying the switching side of things, then the fractal wins.

looking at your current rig Randy, Why not get a strobo stomp or something on your pedalboard, and a line 6 wireless for your pedal board and eliminate that massive rack? The furman could go too. That furman is nothing more than a rackmount power strip. You could either run an extension cord from your amp to your pedalboard, or to one of your band mates furmans. That would save you a lot of space and setup time. It would be a ton less cable too, which will sound better.

i have a tuner on my pedal board, the wireless i could move to my pedalboard also. I can rid myself of the rack, already figured that one out years ago Laughing

The tone and live stuff with the fractal vs cost was what info i was looking for bro Cool

everyone is switching to fractal, i wanna know why?

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

Just look at Shure's new digital wireless. The receiver is the size of a pedal and has a tuner built in that mutes the unit. Kills 2 birds with one stone. i'm getting that one ASAP.

Go to 1:25 in this vid for info.

http://blog.shure.com/news/glx-d-digital-wireless-first-look-from-namm/

Joined: 03 May 2008 Posts: 6628 Location: Minnesota

That Shure wireless looks great!

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

Graunke wrote:

That Shure wireless looks great!

As soon as my store gets it I'm grabbing one. It's the first time I'm going wireless in about 7 years lol I was waiting for the right system and this seems like it. Randy, I think this will fit your needs very well.

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12250 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

Graunke wrote:

That Shure wireless looks great!

As soon as my store gets it I'm grabbing one. It's the first time I'm going wireless in about 7 years lol I was waiting for the right system and this seems like it. Randy, I think this will fit your needs very well.

same. I am usually quick to be the first to be antiwireless but this one looks very promising. Ill probably grab one if the need arises.

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12250 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

this live tone for soloing sounds more than acceptable
featuring mike the situation on vocals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dwBOMdiv5E

Joined: 04 Jun 2012 Posts: 349 Location: South-West Ohio

Another thought - switch to a 2X12 cab and then both rack and cab could fit in a car. just a thought?

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12250 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

and my whole point of not needing a bass cab for your guitar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne888wbZzqk

this guy sums up the whole your ears are broken if you need a bass cab for your guitar. he has one of the top 5 shittiest guitar tones ever.

Joined: 12 Oct 2004 Posts: 3839 Location: BOSTON

pariah2 wrote:

Another thought - switch to a 2X12 cab

blasphemy!

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:43 pm

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

Just look at Shure's new digital wireless. The receiver is the size of a pedal and has a tuner built in that mutes the unit. Kills 2 birds with one stone. i'm getting that one ASAP.

Go to 1:25 in this vid for info.

http://blog.shure.com/news/glx-d-digital-wireless-first-look-from-namm/

win!!!!!!!!!!!!

Joined: 12 Oct 2004 Posts: 3839 Location: BOSTON

that shure wireless is awesome!!

Joined: 04 Jun 2012 Posts: 349 Location: South-West Ohio

al wrote:

pariah2 wrote:

Another thought - switch to a 2X12 cab

blasphemy!

Ther is no blasphemy and I will not recant!

I like the sound AND the portability way more than I liked my 4X12. I think it actually soudns better, but then again it is a custom built cab.

Joined: 12 Oct 2004 Posts: 3839 Location: BOSTON

pariah2 wrote:

al wrote:

pariah2 wrote:

Another thought - switch to a 2X12 cab

blasphemy!

Ther is no blasphemy and I will not recant!

I like the sound AND the portability way more than I liked my 4X12. I think it actually soudns better, but then again it is a custom built cab.

i have a mesa 4x12, but i've been lookin for a 2x12 lately for my bands that don't require the hand of doom. gotta love the low end oomph of a proper 4x12 tho.

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:19 pm

al wrote:

pariah2 wrote:

al wrote:

pariah2 wrote:

Another thought - switch to a 2X12 cab

blasphemy!

Ther is no blasphemy and I will not recant!

I like the sound AND the portability way more than I liked my 4X12. I think it actually soudns better, but then again it is a custom built cab.

i have a mesa 4x12, but i've been lookin for a 2x12 lately for my bands that don't require the hand of doom. gotta love the low end oomph of a proper 4x12 tho.

agreed....

2x12's are great for recording and coffee houses....IMHO...but that about it Laughing

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

A 4X12 is almost impossible to get away from for heavier music. The whole point is to move air. So it's either a 4X12 or an over sized 2X12 but then you're just at almost 4X12 size. Case in point is the 6505 combo (the 2X12) IT'S HUGE and closed back. It's to put forth the oomph and move some air. I like small combos because they are super fun and easy to take around but it's hard to get that super fat tone from them. I'd rather play with a 5 watt mini amp into a 4X12 than a 60 watt 1X12 combo. The 5 watt amp will still sound fatter.

Joined: 04 Jun 2012 Posts: 349 Location: South-West Ohio

I will run my 2X12 against your 4X12 at same volume/same head any day of the week,a dn take all comers.

We'll turn it up and do the "other room" blind test and see which one you pick.

You very well may be surprised.

The cab is slightly oversized [though no where near a 4X12], close dback and runs hellatones.

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:00 pm

pariah2 wrote:

I will run my 2X12 against your 4X12 at same volume/same head any day of the week,a dn take all comers.

We'll turn it up and do the "other room" blind test and see which one you pick.

You very well may be surprised.

The cab is slightly oversized [though no where near a 4X12], close dback and runs hellatones.

Want my address? Laughing

It's like penis size and women... no chick wants a 2" nub-rod.. Laughing

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

It's not about volume. This comes merely from being on stage and needing to move air to create an environment where you are in your sound. Even with in-ear monitors I like to feel my cab on stage. I have had a Mesa Rec 2X12 and a Marshall 1936 and neither we able to do what a 4X12 can. It's science. It's not that there's 2 less speakers so much as the interior dimensions only allow so much air to be pushed from the back of the speaker cones. But I can't say you're 2X12 can't produce awesome sound because I am not there to hear it. That and unless you're willing to ship your 2X12 to me to use and test on stage Vs my 4X12 I can only go by what I know. I only know one guy personally that uses a 2X12 in his big rig.... He uses 3 of them though Laughing

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:06 pm

it's all about size and air!!!!!!!!!! Laughing

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12250 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

agreed its about air. a 2x12 cant make the hair on your legs and arms stand up when standing next to it like a 4x12 can. its all about the air pressure and the negative electrons from the back of the speaker reaching the postive ones coming from the cone. in ears are awesome for getting your mix in your head just right but id still need that cabinet blazing in the back. that is one of 2 reasons I hate hearing my amp through the monitors.

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:32 pm

Grim Reaper wrote:

www.DropD.net wrote:

It's a lot less hassle actually, with a HUGE gain in flexibility and tone shaping power.

If you simply wanna emulate your current rig, then it isn't cost effective. If you wanna add many things to your rig, while simplifying the switching side of things, then the fractal wins.

looking at your current rig Randy, Why not get a strobo stomp or something on your pedalboard, and a line 6 wireless for your pedal board and eliminate that massive rack? The furman could go too. That furman is nothing more than a rackmount power strip. You could either run an extension cord from your amp to your pedalboard, or to one of your band mates furmans. That would save you a lot of space and setup time. It would be a ton less cable too, which will sound better.

i have a tuner on my pedal board, the wireless i could move to my pedalboard also. I can rid myself of the rack, already figured that one out years ago Laughing

The tone and live stuff with the fractal vs cost was what info i was looking for bro Cool

everyone is switching to fractal, i wanna know why?

This

Quote:

If you simply wanna emulate your current rig, then it isn't cost effective. If you wanna add many things to your rig, while simplifying the switching side of things, then the fractal wins.

The fractal simply does many more things than your mesa ever could. Your mesa might do 2 better. (High gain tone by a hair and power, which the fractal lacks)
Not to mention presets which you currently don't have.

As for that wireless, meh. I've had digital wireless since 1997. I have the 1st digital wireless system, the x-wire (from the creator of the x-2 company later) which would later be bought by sennheiser. I have sennheisers only digital unit. Both sound as good or better than a cable. The x-wire is studio quality. Steve vai turned me onto the x-wire.

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2007/Aug/X2_Digital_Wireless_XDS95.aspx

Joined: 04 Jun 2012 Posts: 349 Location: South-West Ohio

What you feel in teh floor adds bass, but is NOT picked up by a mic and is NOT going out a PA. Believe me, I recorded and recorded and recorded and redorded, tried all kinds of differant palcements of mics, several peaker combos/mixes... what is actually SOUND [which incientilly, is only going to be picked up by one speaker before going to teh PA, regardless of hw bif your cab is] might be very rastically differant.

Hell lanning, you're i teh studio - what you thought soudned good I'm sure you either tweaked or the mixing guy tweaks... why? wht you "hear" when you stand next to a cab vs. the actual sound waves picked up by a mic a re two astly differant things.

ohms and fequencies are the same. Louder and more vibration do not equel sound. I've done my homework - extensively. Believe it or not I used to play 5 nights a week and paid the bills solely on getting paid to play music, so believe me I may be slightly more old school but I AM familair with live sound. Believe me, in the end I sold a set of Marshall 1960 cabs [A and B], and an orange cab, for my 2X12.

But hey, if you don't believe me - you have an open invitaiton to bring your head and guitar and come on down. Or we can happily agree to disagree.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

It has NOTHING to do with recording. What the speaker is doing into the mic has 0 to do with standing next to a cab on stage. Take your 2X12 to a venue and play on one side of the stage with it firing at the back of your calves like a lazer beam of focused sound. Have another guy with the same head and matching 4X12 do the same on the other side of the stage. The 4X12 will disperse more sound and low end and not fire that same focused lazer beam of sound. It's physics. Now stand in the audience in the middle where the PA isn't reaching unless there's lip-fill support or side fill support, which is rare in smaller clubs. Tell me which guitar player's tone is fatter? Tell me which one sounds fuller in the mix. Forget what it sounds like on the sides or standing 50ft or 200 ft back in the venue. A 4X12 will dominate a 2X12 in every case where even matched specs are used. Yes a 2X12 can be more efficient if the speakers put out more sound than a 4X12 with less efficient speakers. The rest is science broski. A 4X12 will put out more sound at a lower volume than a 2X12 at the same volume. In every case where I have used a 2X12 over the years, when switching to a 4X12 I have ALWAYS been able to play at a slightly lower volume and have more power behind my sound.

I don't need to prove anything, it just is what it is. Yes I am in the studio right now as I type this on a short break. I don't think it matters where I am. If I don't agree with you I think you'll argue the fact so I'll bow out. Peace Very Happy

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:50 pm

now kids...

the good thing about freedom is matter of opinion

(which mine is all that matter cause it's MY THREAD!!!!) Laughing

Joined: 04 Jun 2012 Posts: 349 Location: South-West Ohio

I have used the 2x!2 on stage. Lots.

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

It has NOTHING to do with recording. What the speaker is doing into the mic has 0 to do with standing next to a cab on stage.

I agree. and in that regard I could care less how it sounds on stage, and care way more how it counds out of the PA.

Where we disagree is that you are still using volume ot try to "help" the PA. If you're making a living from music it should be in your contract [you do get contracts for each show right?] to alter the PA, soundman, or equipment temporarily to benefit the show. Rearrange the cabs, that sort of thing. hell - If the PA is that bad - use the moniters as center speakers. I have.

I don;t know man - I'm not going to take it all personal or whaetver, and I reprect you a lot and don;t want it to evolve into something that goes form a discussion and disagreement to osomething else, so I'll just request that we respectfully disagree.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

pariah2 wrote:

Where we disagree is that you are still using volume ot try to "help" the PA. If you're making a living from music it should be in your contract [you do get contracts for each show right?] to alter the PA, soundman, or equipment temporarily to benefit the show. Rearrange the cabs, that sort of thing. hell - If the PA is that bad - use the moniters as center speakers. I have.

I never said I'm using volume to help the PA. I'm talking about sound dispersal on stage to use lower volume to get the same amount of sound. You'll always have to turn a 2X12 louder to match a 4X12. A 4X12 helps to lower the overal SPL level.

As far as contracts and how they work with clubs and soundment etc... That's not how it works if you're not on a major tour. You can't come in and start contractually demanding stuff. You can book your tour based on the locale and then find clubs that can meet system requirements but it's hit or miss. If you've ever been on a tour then you know it's all smiles and handshakes until you get there and sh1t is never what they say it is.

That's why we have our own monitor system so we can play a backyard BBQ or at Madison Sq Garden and get the same on stage mix. I honestly don't care what happens at the PA. I have learned after years and year of doing this that it's out of your hands. You can be cool and ask for certain things but they're gonna give you what they give you and if you start whining about not sounding the way you want then they can make your life a living hell. That's the reality of touring. If you're in the same local clubs all the time and have camaraderie with the same sound guys all the time then you're more likely able to get what you want. When you're bouncing city to city, venue to venue it's a crapshoot. I just smile and make the best of every show and don't rock the boat. That's how you get good sound.

And forget about it if you play a show with a big band... Then the sound guys don't want you to sound remotely as good as the headliner or even secondary acts. You get totally fvcked... Then they tell you "Oh you only get 6 channels of the board... None of the cool lights... Oh and your set starts when doors open so you play to a place that's just filling up when everyone is getting beer and checking their coats.

There is more money and better sound to be had playing covers in bars on the weekends to a local crowd who you know by face. Laughing

Once you get in the van you're stuck with the day to day unknowns... I'd rather have a 4X12 to back me up than a 2X12. I can actually tell the sound guy to go fvck himself and crank my amp to fill a room if I have to. A 2X12 is too thin for that unless you play lighter rock, blues or indie.

Joined: 04 Jun 2012 Posts: 349 Location: South-West Ohio

wow dude. I don;t even know how to relate.

A lot of times we were the headliner, but even when we weren't and in the early days I NEVER had an issue where someone would intentionlally try to make us sound bad. If they did, word got around quick, and no one would want to play with that band/sound guy/production group/what have you. Now there were often times limits in that you had to stay your time slot - no more no less - and that you may be cramped for stage space because you might be plying in front of the other bands gear behind a curtain. But deliberately make us sound bad? I can't even relate. I would seriously question the types of folks you are doing business with, and if everyone agrees that this is what todays business world of music has become then I'm glad I'm out. Its hard enough - musiciand don't need any help getting ther throat slit.

Hel dude, in my day [I groan at how old that makes me sound] we'd let guys ride in our van if they needed room for something [or sometimes someone was getting the flu or something so they would want to isolte the singer so his throat stayed healthy], we'd let peple crash on our floor, borrow strings, picks, sticks, amps, cabs - hell even band memebers when someone ouldn't make a show or two. I've had guys buy us dinner after shows and give me a lift when my transportation was a no show. Hell I had a guy loan me $150 simply on a handshake once. I mean s#%t would happen and we would all pool together, every day, to make sure we all got through it. partly because when they wanted the help they wouldn't want to be remembereed as the guy who wouldn't help, and also because no one wants a bad rep. Its just plain the right thing to do as well.

CLubs and venues would have restrictions, but as long as our guys did the work, it was temporary amd would restore it to exactly how it was or better they were generally pretty OK with it as it cost them nothing.

I'll admit, there were a few acts who had "big names" and you'd catch teh occasionly flak or snide comment form that person, but the crew and support were generally still really real cool guys.

Two differant world I guess man - I just can't relate to having to fight the sound ahd the other bandsplus the other day to day stuff. I'd lose my mind over that crap.

The closest I can come is as a bar band playing real small clubs going through like a small [and I mean small] 4 channel PA.inwhi ch case you just had to do the best with whta you had. Can;t say the bigger cab really helped though - the place it faced was the place it faced, wether it was two or four speakers. I can remember spending a lot of time [wih a 4X12] down hunched over and/or on my knees trying to hear myself because of how the mix was in a really bad way that no one could fix. The audience thought I was "really getting into it"[some commented on it later to me] - in reality I was struggling to hear, ha ha ha!

Long story short I've always had guys work together to make everyone sound way better, and the tale of the tape [live and in studio] I decided on my 2X12 cab.

I guess in essence, tone is always in the eye [ear?] of the beholder [hearer?], and what I think sounds good others might hate - just like amps, amount of gain, EQ, all that stuff. I do stand behind my word- anyone who wants to drop by and check out my cab, or even my whole rig - I'd love to hang out and jam! It would be lots of fun I think. Otherwise, I just agree to disagree, and thats basically my last word on the subject.

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12250 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

you know what I love about this forum and when I say love that is scarasm. I really mean well Ill be nice.

I really love when inexperience people try to tell me s#%t they have no idea what the %$#@! they are talking about. its almost like your 8th grade science teacher trying to tell steven hawkins he is wrong.

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:27 am

Grim Reaper wrote:

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

Just look at Shure's new digital wireless. The receiver is the size of a pedal and has a tuner built in that mutes the unit. Kills 2 birds with one stone. i'm getting that one ASAP.

Go to 1:25 in this vid for info.

http://blog.shure.com/news/glx-d-digital-wireless-first-look-from-namm/

win!!!!!!!!!!!!

that's bad ass.

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:37 am

i'm sticking with the recto and the setup i have, i deal with transportation, i love that i pull 3 roadcase covers, plus in 3 cables and turn the switch on and i'm up...4 minutes once it's on stage

Joined: 04 Jun 2012 Posts: 349 Location: South-West Ohio

BLOODROOT wrote:

you know what I love about this forum and when I say love that is scarasm. I really mean well Ill be nice.

I really love when inexperience people try to tell me s#%t they have no idea what the %$#@! they are talking about. its almost like your 8th grade science teacher trying to tell steven hawkins he is wrong.

Me too. I agree 100%.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

I got the hint... I'll stop Sad

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:17 pm

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

I got the hint... I'll stop Sad

stop what, opinons bro... not everybody is gonna love everybodies replies. No worries and get back to providing information Cool

Joined: 13 Feb 2004 Posts: 5603 Location: phoenix az.

Id stick with ur rig Randy it gives u the true mesa sound you like.
Dont give into the trend bro.That non tube fractal isnt going to do anything but drive u nuts fckin with it for hours on end just trying to make it sound as good as ur real mesa!Half the sound guys in this town suck balls at doing sound u know this!So trelying on them is out!I havent heard a clip yet that made me wana sell my gear for it.Yeah options bla bla bla.These things are made for studio guys needing 35 different guitar sounds.For metal you just need one good core distortion tone maybe some delay on ur lead and a wah.
I too thought about it then I thought for my live rig what do i really need and use.WHAT I got!pedal board head and cab I can play all my bands songs just fine.
wouldent mind having one in my home studio for messing around with fusion music but i dont really need one.Besides with all the options id be ripping my hair out for days trying to decide what sounds best im sure that would drive me insane! Rolling Eyes

I cant tell u how many gigs I thanked god that I had a 100 watt head and 4/12.

y the hell does anyone need in ear monitors at a club?Havent ever had a problem hearing my cab that just cracks me up!
if they tell u u cant be loud just face ur cab in at u from the side of the stage problem solved.

I remember when the pod bean first came out guys at gc told me dude this is the shiznit to record with nothing beats it.thing sounded average at best.3 years from now there will be the next best thing everybody will be like oh the fractal its ok but this is way better.meanwhile ur mesa will still be one of the best sounding amps of all time.

Id wait untill fractal comes out with an all tube version then might be something to look at.
Simplicity sometimes is best.Every piece of rack gear ive ever had seemed like the more options the less real tone.my line 6 m13 is a great pedal but the effects in it are not quite as good as the real pedals!

hmmm mesa sound or mesa-ish sound.ur tone or close as u can get to it tone?who cares about all the tones available if u cant get the tone u already love?

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12250 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

RobBouchardDeanml wrote:

Id stick with ur rig Randy it gives u the true mesa sound you like.
Dont give into the trend bro.That non tube fractal isnt going to do anything but drive u nuts fckin with it for hours on end just trying to make it sound as good as ur real mesa!Half the sound guys in this town suck balls at doing sound u know this!So trelying on them is out!I havent heard a clip yet that made me wana sell my gear for it.Yeah options bla bla bla.These things are made for studio guys needing 35 different guitar sounds.For metal you just need one good core distortion tone maybe some delay on ur lead and a wah.
I too thought about it then I thought for my live rig what do i really need and use.WHAT I got!pedal board head and cab I can play all my bands songs just fine.
wouldent mind having one in my home studio for messing around with fusion music but i dont really need one.Besides with all the options id be ripping my hair out for days trying to decide what sounds best im sure that would drive me insane! Rolling Eyes

I cant tell u how many gigs I thanked god that I had a 100 watt head and 4/12.

y the hell does anyone need in ear monitors at a club?Havent ever had a problem hearing my cab that just cracks me up!
if they tell u u cant be loud just face ur cab in at u from the side of the stage problem solved.

I remember when the pod bean first came out guys at gc told me dude this is the shiznit to record with nothing beats it.thing sounded average at best.3 years from now there will be the next best thing everybody will be like oh the fractal its ok but this is way better.meanwhile ur mesa will still be one of the best sounding amps of all time.

Id wait untill fractal comes out with an all tube version then might be something to look at.

agreed about not switching amps to the digital turdbox.

but the in ear comment was actually pretty silly. in ears allow you to have your own perfect mix. like having a live cd in headphones. its great if your band consists of people that actually sing. not just the singer but the rest of the band. you can tweak it to have your own personal mix. its not about hearing your amp blazing. its about each member being able to have whatever they want up loud or down low or non existent. without slaving to a shitty sound guy. you are correct though. you dont need them much in your local divebars. but still are great depending on the type of band and how loud you actually want to hear the instruments. its much easier to sing in key with them and not have to struggle to get your headvoice louder than the stage music. and no matter where you go on stage, your mix is the same unlike without them wherever you go on stage the instrument youre closest to is the loudest.

i keep saying the exact thing though. they need a tube amp that models amps instead of what they all are now. they all are like 2 different shitty gain stages with different eq curves that mimick the eq curve of the amp they are trying to clone. If they all used real tube gain paired up with the eq curves and killer efx then they would all be onto something.

Joined: 13 Feb 2004 Posts: 5603 Location: phoenix az.

ive been playing for years without in ear monitors just seems silly for a guitarist in a club I can hear everybody just fine even with crappy sound men.Maybe if i was the lead singer i might like it.just seems like another unnecessary thing to worry about.I havent seen anyone in the clubs wearing these.

Of course im old school i plug in my pedalboard>amp>cab krank my amp and shred its always been that way for me i dont want to get used to a bunch of fancy crap to play. long as i can hear my cab im good and i haven't played a gig yet where I need in ear monitors

To me playing live is a challenge. to see if ur badass enough to pull it off and make it look easy whether u got good sound bad sound or whatever!I dont need anything thats going to take longer to set up and cut into my set time thats for sure!
yes i can see where it might be nice but for me playing clubs just dont need it

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12250 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

RobBouchardDeanml wrote:

ive been playing for years without in ear monitors just seems silly for a guitarist in a club I can hear everybody just fine even with crappy sound men.Maybe if i was the lead singer i might like it.just seems like another unnecessary thing to worry about.I havent seen anyone in the clubs wearing these.

Of course im old school i plug in my pedalboard>amp>cab krank my amp and shred its always been that way for me i dont want to get used to a bunch of fancy crap to play long as i can hear my cab im good and i havent played a gig yet where.I couldn't.

lots of bands here have them. again its not just about you. maybe your singer doesnt want to hear the guitars blazing or the drums smashing his ear drums. maybe you hate your bass players amp sound. maybe your bass player doesnt want to hear your metalzone. mix is all fixed to each band members liking with in ear monitors. And for big stages they are great. no dead zones and the mix is the same no matter where you stand on stage. there is one club here, they have no monitors. they hand you a can of baby wipes and in ears while you are setting up.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

Why do we have in-ear monitors? We have backing tracks and a lot of things going on. We prefer to have the exact same mix every night no matter where we play. It makes the band tighter and more consistent. Don't say it's silly just because you don't understand why someone would need it Rob. You don't need them so you don't use them. It's not about loud... Also we don't have to play loud to hear ourselves. With in-ear monitors it's quieter and safer to protect our hearing. Again just because you don't use them it doesn't make it silly or wrong. Next you'll say it's stupid that we have backing tracks Rolling Eyes

Joined: 13 Feb 2004 Posts: 5603 Location: phoenix az.

I like my bands sound! if they provide them ill use em.but im not goin out to buy any anytime soon still seems like pampered princess needs to me for a club.You go ahead enjoy!

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

RobBouchardDeanml wrote:

I like my bands sound! if they provide them ill use em.but im not goin out to buy any anytime soon still seems like pampered princess needs to me for a club.You go ahead enjoy!

Sounds more like you talking about things you don't truly understand so you're just barking off at the mouth.

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12250 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

its all about personal taste and personal need and what type of music the band is trying to deliver to the crowd. There are certain things required at each level of a music career.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

I like to hear my harmony vox... I like to have the lead Vox mixed properly with my vox. I like to be able to hear the backing tracks to make sure everything is flowing properly. I like to not have ringing ears at the end of the night. I like that my singer doesn't have to sing over a shitty monitor system and our amps on stage and blow his voice out night after night. Anyone who doesn't understand those needs doesn't understand the point of in-ear monitors. We're getting ready to get to the next step in our careers and it's a necessity so we invested. We're not 4 dudes with cranked amps trying to hammer out riffs like cavemen. If you can't respect this Rob and just want to sling insults then there is nothing to say to you. We are not Cactus Chainsaw or Throw The Switch and we don't aspire to be. Good luck with your music.

Joined: 13 Feb 2004 Posts: 5603 Location: phoenix az.

wasnt even talking to u or about u Lanning I was talking about the in ear monitors.To me it seems like an unnecessary thing to have to get the job done that ive been doing for years without.i.in ear monitors are a luxury(hence fluffy princess) not something you have to have that was my point.seems ridiculous in a club to me.I have my right to my opinion!

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

You do but you also don't necessarily have the need for them. I only figured you meant me since I'm the only one in this thread that uses them. There is a reason for them. The size of a venue has nothing to do with it. It could be a closet, bar or wembley stadium. We got our system and got used to it over the last few gigs before we went in to do the new album. We have so many tracks and backing things going on with the new music that we have to be able to hear what's going on. Same with the harmony vocals... Our drummer uses them to hear it all and play with the click which sync's with all of it. It ensures a perfect mix every night with everything that's going on. The size of the venue has ZERO to do with it. Yes you may not need them but that's you. Come play in my band and you'll be begging for them after a night on monitors, while the rest of us have them. Also you can't have all that crap blaring through a stage wedge, you'd be lost trying to hear what's going on. With our system it's 16 channel and stereo, you can choose what you want, how much of it and which side or both sides. No matter where you are on stage it's perfect night after night. We also play a lot tighter because there is no delay which often happens on stage. With your band, you don't see a need. There likely isn't a need. I get that, but that's just your situation as it stands. If we were just rockin' out riffs and rippin' it up at 11 I wouldn't want them either. Bands that use them usually do for other reasons.

Joined: 13 Feb 2004 Posts: 5603 Location: phoenix az.

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

I like to hear my harmony vox... I like to have the lead Vox mixed properly with my vox. I like to be able to hear the backing tracks to make sure everything is flowing properly. I like to not have ringing ears at the end of the night. I like that my singer doesn't have to sing over a shitty monitor system and our amps on stage and blow his voice out night after night. Anyone who doesn't understand those needs doesn't understand the point of in-ear monitors. We're getting ready to get to the next step in our careers and it's a necessity so we invested. We're not 4 dudes with cranked amps trying to hammer out riffs like cavemen. If you can't respect this Rob and just want to sling insults then there is nothing to say to you. We are not Cactus Chainsaw or Throw The Switch and we don't aspire to be. Good luck with your music.

Cave men?4 dudes with amps cranked<look here Lanning dont start with me dude. The clubs ur playing are no bigger than the clubs im playing and u havent done a damn thing thats bigger than what im doing so u need to stfu!I wasnt attacking u why soon as i say pampery princess u feel its about u is beyond me!playing big areana shows yes i could see the in ear monitors.this whole time ive been saying I DONT NEED THEM!Not u or anyone else!If u need them have at it!I dont need a perfect mix to put on a good live show.thats all i have been saying all along.people have been putting on great shows for years without them!Damn I was sure this thread was about fractals!

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

RobBouchardDeanml wrote:

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

I like to hear my harmony vox... I like to have the lead Vox mixed properly with my vox. I like to be able to hear the backing tracks to make sure everything is flowing properly. I like to not have ringing ears at the end of the night. I like that my singer doesn't have to sing over a shitty monitor system and our amps on stage and blow his voice out night after night. Anyone who doesn't understand those needs doesn't understand the point of in-ear monitors. We're getting ready to get to the next step in our careers and it's a necessity so we invested. We're not 4 dudes with cranked amps trying to hammer out riffs like cavemen. If you can't respect this Rob and just want to sling insults then there is nothing to say to you. We are not Cactus Chainsaw or Throw The Switch and we don't aspire to be. Good luck with your music.

Cave men?4 dudes with amps cranked<look here Lanning dont start with me dude. The clubs ur playing are no bigger than the clubs im playing and u havent done a damn thing thats bigger than what im doing so u need to stfu!

lol

Hmmm we'll see what your opinion is in a few months.

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12250 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

rob, perhaps you should google Garth Richardson and Ben Kaplan. Really no need to have a pissing contest over in ear monitors.

Joined: 13 Feb 2004 Posts: 5603 Location: phoenix az.

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

RobBouchardDeanml wrote:

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

I like to hear my harmony vox... I like to have the lead Vox mixed properly with my vox. I like to be able to hear the backing tracks to make sure everything is flowing properly. I like to not have ringing ears at the end of the night. I like that my singer doesn't have to sing over a shitty monitor system and our amps on stage and blow his voice out night after night. Anyone who doesn't understand those needs doesn't understand the point of in-ear monitors. We're getting ready to get to the next step in our careers and it's a necessity so we invested. We're not 4 dudes with cranked amps trying to hammer out riffs like cavemen. If you can't respect this Rob and just want to sling insults then there is nothing to say to you. We are not Cactus Chainsaw or Throw The Switch and we don't aspire to be. Good luck with your music.

Cave men?4 dudes with amps cranked<look here Lanning dont start with me dude. The clubs ur playing are no bigger than the clubs im playing and u havent done a damn thing thats bigger than what im doing so u need to stfu!

lol

Hmmm we'll see what your opinion is in a few months.

Y are u planning to buy some fame ooooh snap!

This is just a forum Lanning in reallity I can appreciate what ur trying to do with ur band and ur level of commitment but dont doubt what what im doing either because u really have no idea what is happening with my bands.
I wouldent be surprized Lanning if u opened for a big band i just found out here in my town i could open for megadeth for 2000 bucks
Its all about the money.
I dont even know why u would say ur not trying to sound like cactus chainsaw or throw the switch we are not screamo bands? we have original styleand our own sound.theres a 100 screamo bands here that all sound the same were doing our own thing.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

You're right man it's all about the money. No band will get anywhere beyond their local without it these days. You may have some fun but in the end you can't endure and get out there without the support. You can't travel too far from your day job unless you have the bankroll. We are in with one of the biggest producers in the world and his entire team of people who are working on what's next for us. We're not even Dodging Daylight anymore. That name is gone. The new one will be unveiled on April 1st. We're writing hit songs with people hired to help make sure they are hits. That's how the industry works dude. I'm not paying $2000 to open for Megadeth. I don't invest foolishly in my band that way. I could argue with you all night about in-ear monitors or weather I need to be your whipping boy but that's not my jam bro. I wish your bands luck. I know you work hard for what you have. I can't fault your for taking stuff personal. I can't be offended by stuff like that anymore. I have to be up in the studio early tomorrow for another 13 hour day of writing and tracking. Cheers Rob, and good luck.

Joined: 13 Feb 2004 Posts: 5603 Location: phoenix az.

well good Lanning and good luck with that.Ive been in the studio the last 2 weeks tracking the new throw the switch album and been playing shows non stop every weekend for 4 months now thank god i dont have a show the week after next I need a break.Wait a minute why would you do all uv done with ur band DD and spend all that money doing it and then change the name?Please enlighten us what thats about?why would u go into the studio to write and track?when I go to the studio I have my s#%t down and know what im going to play most people do.Whats that about.not trying to be a dick but whats that about?isnt that hella more expensive than just writing before u go into the studio?usually we go play a bunch of shows and lock our sht down tight before going to the studio so we have time to work out the bugs.
now back to talking about fractal?

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12250 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

man, right when i was getting the popcorn out. ahahah

Joined: 13 Feb 2004 Posts: 5603 Location: phoenix az.

sorry chris lol Very Happy

Joined: 30 Nov 2003 Posts: 10592 Location: Canada

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

Sounds more like you talking about things you don't truly understand so you're just barking off at the mouth.

Kind of like when you were arguing with me about how you thought using big amps and 4x12 cabs on stage were silly, and how you were just going to use a little lunch box amp... it took you a year to figure that out. Oh well, you're going to enjoy rocking those Splawn!

Joined: 30 Nov 2003 Posts: 10592 Location: Canada

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

And forget about it if you play a show with a big band... Then the sound guys don't want you to sound remotely as good as the headliner or even secondary acts. You get totally fvcked... Then they tell you "Oh you only get 6 channels of the board... None of the cool lights... Oh and your set starts when doors open so you play to a place that's just filling up when everyone is getting beer and checking their coats.

Absolutely! It's easy to be crushed by a headliner who simply wants to be bigger and louder, or even worse when they feel threatened by you.

Joined: 30 Nov 2003 Posts: 10592 Location: Canada

BTW, I can't see any reason someone can't plug a Fractal into a Marshall EL34-100/100 rack amp and into two or four cabs... you just have to turn off the mike and speaker emulation.

Joined: 17 Dec 2004 Posts: 9602 Location: Portsmouth, VA

There's a whole lot of butthurt in this thread.

Joined: 28 Mar 2006 Posts: 5457 Location: White Haven,Pa

Another classic Bucketass thread Laughing

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:37 pm

WIN!!!

Joined: 14 Jul 2008 Posts: 1284

RobBouchardDeanml wrote:

....why would u go into the studio to write and track? when I go to the studio I have my s#%t down and know what im going to play most people do.Whats that about.not trying to be a dick but whats that about?isnt that hella more expensive than just writing before u go into the studio?...

A lot of bands that have the budget or are working with a pro level producer will write and record in the studio, it takes away most of the guesswork when you can actually sit and listen to what the final mix will sound like, and then decide on changes. It allows you to listen from the audience perspective, which helps especially with songs that may be band favorites and a hell of a lot of fun to perform but might not be hits. Bands will also frequently record more songs than they need for the album then pick the best ones.

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:28 pm

I used in ears a couple times, i like them...just wouldn't want another board and crap to haul around and set up, maybe make the singer do it. Laughing

Joined: 13 Feb 2004 Posts: 5603 Location: phoenix az.

boombazilla wrote:

RobBouchardDeanml wrote:

....why would u go into the studio to write and track? when I go to the studio I have my s#%t down and know what im going to play most people do.Whats that about.not trying to be a dick but whats that about?isnt that hella more expensive than just writing before u go into the studio?...

A lot of bands that have the budget or are working with a pro level producer will write and record in the studio, it takes away most of the guesswork when you can actually sit and listen to what the final mix will sound like, and then decide on changes. It allows you to listen from the audience perspective, which helps especially with songs that may be band favorites and a hell of a lot of fun to perform but might not be hits. Bands will also frequently record more songs than they need for the album then pick the best ones.

thats cool if u got the money i guess.I usually make a demo first so i can see if anything needs to be changed.

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12250 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

i like to demo my songs on my kazoo

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:33 pm

BLOODROOT wrote:

i like to demo my songs on my kazoo

i use the spoons and fart along

Joined: 12 Oct 2004 Posts: 3839 Location: BOSTON

if i remember correctly, the fractal has a sick spoonfart emulator.

you should trade up dude.

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:13 pm

al wrote:

if i remember correctly, the fractal has a sick spoonfart emulator.

you should trade up dude.

I was just reading that update just now, I think i'm going to wait for the queef mode update to come out, it may be easier on the ears.. and the nose

Joined: 13 Feb 2004 Posts: 5603 Location: phoenix az.

im just waiting for the update where i just think about what i wana play then it comes out the speakers Very Happy

Joined: 12 Oct 2004 Posts: 3839 Location: BOSTON

Grim Reaper wrote:

queefmode

new band name Laughing

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:57 am

al wrote:

Grim Reaper wrote:

queefmode

new band name Laughing

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:34 am

I will admit "Queefmode" is some kind of awesome verbage that is an instant classic. I will be using it tomorrow.

Joined: 04 Jun 2012 Posts: 349 Location: South-West Ohio

The new one in my neck of the woods is "tons of fun", as in calling someone fat - as in; "look here 'tons of fun', I don't know where you get that crap but let me tell you something..."

Its pretty funny the first time or five you hear it.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

RobBouchardDeanml wrote:

well good Lanning and good luck with that.Ive been in the studio the last 2 weeks tracking the new throw the switch album and been playing shows non stop every weekend for 4 months now thank god i dont have a show the week after next I need a break.Wait a minute why would you do all uv done with ur band DD and spend all that money doing it and then change the name?Please enlighten us what thats about?why would u go into the studio to write and track?when I go to the studio I have my s#%t down and know what im going to play most people do.Whats that about.not trying to be a dick but whats that about?isnt that hella more expensive than just writing before u go into the studio?usually we go play a bunch of shows and lock our sht down tight before going to the studio so we have time to work out the bugs.
now back to talking about fractal?

We, DD, were more of a metal band. You know the screaming, riffy stuff. We fired the singer because he refused to evolve with us. We decided if we are to appeal to a much larger audience that we needed an actual singer with real appeal and a more rockin' personality. We have always kinda used a few different drummers but our bassist has only been in the band about 6 months. So I'm the only real original member of DD. The new music sounds nothing like DD. Now it's more a cross between Ailice In Chains, The Melvins, Wolfmother and Clutch with a little Rob Zombie and Iggy Pop thrown in. So if you search DD and hear the new music it's two completely different sounds. It was suggested that we change our name by our producer and my wife who manages us, for the better of the band.

As far as the writing. We did a lot of writing prior to the studio but here's how it works. Our producer, Garth Richardson, said we can't make an album that's not a hit and in order to do that the band is NEVER allowed to just write the songs and do their own thing. Writers are ALWAYS brought in to assist and guide the band to find its sound. He wants us to have this be the album that breaks and take us to the next level so he has a lot of say on what happens. His record of albums he has done is a proven track record and he has a lot of clout.

I have always been a huge Bloodsimple fan and Garth produced their first album. He suggested Nick Rowe, who played guitar for them and wrote all their tunes on both albums, help us. He contacted him and had him get in touch with me. We hit it off being that both of us are from NYC and are into the same things. Nick agreed to come help write the album and help us find our sound. He just finished producing the new Snoop Lion (Even Snoop has changed his name lol) and flew up here from Los Angeles to stay with us for the month. We have been in a pre-production studio since the 4th of March. We took all the stuff I wrote and dissected it. We took out the things we all liked and put the other stuff aside. Then we wrote 12 new songs using ideas I had already put together and some new ideas we came up with in the studio. Then Garth comes in and makes changes based on what he felt needed to be done.

Then our singer comes in and we work on his ideas with the songs and then again the songs change. The songs will be changed and re-written all the way up until the final sessions before recording starts on April 1st, but there may still be some changes in the studio.

So basically it is the band's job to come up with ideas. It's then the writer and producer's job to say, "OK this is what's good, this is what is sh1t, this is the way this songs needs to be re-structured and this is the the song that doesn't make the album. They will also bring in ideas they have from other projects that didn't make the cut for that band but is more fitting for you and mold it for your band. No band going for the level of what we're working on is allowed to have full reign of their songs. Record labels don't allow it unless they are so huge that they can sh1t in a box and sell it... Metallica anyone?

You know when you read in forums... "oh well XXXXXX band didn't write their own songs" and "So and so didn't write this" or "This guy didn't really play the solo"....? That's not some bands. That's MOST bands. I think we had that discussion a while back about Five Finger Death Punch, how they were assembled by the label and the album was written for them or whatever. It's totally feasible. My friend Dave sings for Annihilator and we were going to bring him in but he just got notified that they are putting out a new album and it's already written and he needs to fly to Toronto to record it. He plays guitar and sings and hasn't even heard the album yet and it's finished being written.

WELCOME TO THE RECORD INDUSTRY FELLAS. Laughing

So the reason we write in the studio is because then the writer, in this case, Nick, writes with us and helps with all the vocal melodies, helps with all the guitar riff structure and changes in the song, all the bass lines and drum structure. He does all the pre-production with us and gets the songs ready for actual studio sessions. In 2 weeks we head into the rehearsal room to fully learn all the new songs since we made a ton of changes over the last month to them and they aren't finished yet. We spend a week of 12 hour days learning the album inside and out so our parts are down perfect with Garth sitting in and ensuring we're playing the songs properly. Then on April 1st we go into the main studio to start tracking. We'll be in the studio tracking every day for about a month. Then Josh Wilbur who did the last 2 Lamb Of God albums will be mixing our album. Once that is done it's off to the races for a few years of touring. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Finally the main reason we spend all that money, all that time with a writer and big producer? So when we deal with the labels, distributers and tour agents we don't have doors slammed in our faces. Our album is fully ready to go, the band is fully ready to tour and the songs are on point. We are investing in our future.

I know some may say that it's stupid. I know some people won't understand. I know some people think having writers is cheating. I know some people don't want any part of how this is done. This is the reality though. We had a few meetings prior to starting this with the powers that be and we were sat down and it was all explained to us. This is what it takes and this is TOTALLY NORMAL. I'm still coming to grips with some of it. I honestly am not 100% comfortable with how everything is evolving but I'm learning as I go.

Joined: 14 Jul 2008 Posts: 428 Location: Fargo, ND

Biggest pissing contest I've seen in a while. This is why I barely visit this forum anymore.

Joined: 14 Jul 2008 Posts: 1284

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

...You know when you read in forums... "oh well XXXXXX band didn't write their own songs" and "So and so didn't write this" or "This guy didn't really play the solo"....? That's not some bands. That's MOST bands. I think we had that discussion a while back about Five Finger Death Punch, how they were assembled by the label and the album was written for them or whatever. It's totally feasible. My friend Dave sings for Annihilator and we were going to bring him in but he just got notified that they are putting out a new album and it's already written and he needs to fly to Toronto to record it. He plays guitar and sings and hasn't even heard the album yet and it's finished being written.

WELCOME TO THE RECORD INDUSTRY FELLAS. Laughing

....

Reminds me again of the famous Steve Albini rant; "The Problem With Music" - http://www.negativland.com/news/?page_id=17

Joined: 30 Nov 2003 Posts: 10592 Location: Canada

And things are so much different then that now too! That was 20 years ago or so! But of course that's only one side of the coin. He doesn't talk about how many bands the label signed up that ended up achieving or even doing anything after taking up so much time and money.

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:07 pm

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

RobBouchardDeanml wrote:

well good Lanning and good luck with that.Ive been in the studio the last 2 weeks tracking the new throw the switch album and been playing shows non stop every weekend for 4 months now thank god i dont have a show the week after next I need a break.Wait a minute why would you do all uv done with ur band DD and spend all that money doing it and then change the name?Please enlighten us what thats about?why would u go into the studio to write and track?when I go to the studio I have my s#%t down and know what im going to play most people do.Whats that about.not trying to be a dick but whats that about?isnt that hella more expensive than just writing before u go into the studio?usually we go play a bunch of shows and lock our sht down tight before going to the studio so we have time to work out the bugs.
now back to talking about fractal?

We, DD, were more of a metal band. You know the screaming, riffy stuff. We fired the singer because he refused to evolve with us. We decided if we are to appeal to a much larger audience that we needed an actual singer with real appeal and a more rockin' personality. We have always kinda used a few different drummers but our bassist has only been in the band about 6 months. So I'm the only real original member of DD. The new music sounds nothing like DD. Now it's more a cross between Ailice In Chains, The Melvins, Wolfmother and Clutch with a little Rob Zombie and Iggy Pop thrown in. So if you search DD and hear the new music it's two completely different sounds. It was suggested that we change our name by our producer and my wife who manages us, for the better of the band.

As far as the writing. We did a lot of writing prior to the studio but here's how it works. Our producer, Garth Richardson, said we can't make an album that's not a hit and in order to do that the band is NEVER allowed to just write the songs and do their own thing. Writers are ALWAYS brought in to assist and guide the band to find its sound. He wants us to have this be the album that breaks and take us to the next level so he has a lot of say on what happens. His record of albums he has done is a proven track record and he has a lot of clout.

I have always been a huge Bloodsimple fan and Garth produced their first album. He suggested Nick Rowe, who played guitar for them and wrote all their tunes on both albums, help us. He contacted him and had him get in touch with me. We hit it off being that both of us are from NYC and are into the same things. Nick agreed to come help write the album and help us find our sound. He just finished producing the new Snoop Lion (Even Snoop has changed his name lol) and flew up here from Los Angeles to stay with us for the month. We have been in a pre-production studio since the 4th of March. We took all the stuff I wrote and dissected it. We took out the things we all liked and put the other stuff aside. Then we wrote 12 new songs using ideas I had already put together and some new ideas we came up with in the studio. Then Garth comes in and makes changes based on what he felt needed to be done.

Then our singer comes in and we work on his ideas with the songs and then again the songs change. The songs will be changed and re-written all the way up until the final sessions before recording starts on April 1st, but there may still be some changes in the studio.

So basically it is the band's job to come up with ideas. It's then the writer and producer's job to say, "OK this is what's good, this is what is sh1t, this is the way this songs needs to be re-structured and this is the the song that doesn't make the album. They will also bring in ideas they have from other projects that didn't make the cut for that band but is more fitting for you and mold it for your band. No band going for the level of what we're working on is allowed to have full reign of their songs. Record labels don't allow it unless they are so huge that they can sh1t in a box and sell it... Metallica anyone?

You know when you read in forums... "oh well XXXXXX band didn't write their own songs" and "So and so didn't write this" or "This guy didn't really play the solo"....? That's not some bands. That's MOST bands. I think we had that discussion a while back about Five Finger Death Punch, how they were assembled by the label and the album was written for them or whatever. It's totally feasible. My friend Dave sings for Annihilator and we were going to bring him in but he just got notified that they are putting out a new album and it's already written and he needs to fly to Toronto to record it. He plays guitar and sings and hasn't even heard the album yet and it's finished being written.

WELCOME TO THE RECORD INDUSTRY FELLAS. Laughing

So the reason we write in the studio is because then the writer, in this case, Nick, writes with us and helps with all the vocal melodies, helps with all the guitar riff structure and changes in the song, all the bass lines and drum structure. He does all the pre-production with us and gets the songs ready for actual studio sessions. In 2 weeks we head into the rehearsal room to fully learn all the new songs since we made a ton of changes over the last month to them and they aren't finished yet. We spend a week of 12 hour days learning the album inside and out so our parts are down perfect with Garth sitting in and ensuring we're playing the songs properly. Then on April 1st we go into the main studio to start tracking. We'll be in the studio tracking every day for about a month. Then Josh Wilbur who did the last 2 Lamb Of God albums will be mixing our album. Once that is done it's off to the races for a few years of touring. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Finally the main reason we spend all that money, all that time with a writer and big producer? So when we deal with the labels, distributers and tour agents we don't have doors slammed in our faces. Our album is fully ready to go, the band is fully ready to tour and the songs are on point. We are investing in our future.

I know some may say that it's stupid. I know some people won't understand. I know some people think having writers is cheating. I know some people don't want any part of how this is done. This is the reality though. We had a few meetings prior to starting this with the powers that be and we were sat down and it was all explained to us. This is what it takes and this is TOTALLY NORMAL. I'm still coming to grips with some of it. I honestly am not 100% comfortable with how everything is evolving but I'm learning as I go.

Welcome to selling out, and not every seat in the arena, either. if this try fails lanning, you can always do country music. it works in much the same way as you described.

This is nothing personal, either bro. I just get sick of all the FAKE s#%t in music. You know who didn't have songwriters writing their songs? Pantera. Metallica. Led Zeppelin. Nowadays, most the music sounds the same and we have a million one hit wonders.

On the other hand though, if you can get Desmond Child you'll have a hit for sure!

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12250 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

RobBouchardDeanml wrote:

well good Lanning and good luck with that.Ive been in the studio the last 2 weeks tracking the new throw the switch album and been playing shows non stop every weekend for 4 months now thank god i dont have a show the week after next I need a break.Wait a minute why would you do all uv done with ur band DD and spend all that money doing it and then change the name?Please enlighten us what thats about?why would u go into the studio to write and track?when I go to the studio I have my s#%t down and know what im going to play most people do.Whats that about.not trying to be a dick but whats that about?isnt that hella more expensive than just writing before u go into the studio?usually we go play a bunch of shows and lock our sht down tight before going to the studio so we have time to work out the bugs.
now back to talking about fractal?

We, DD, were more of a metal band. You know the screaming, riffy stuff. We fired the singer because he refused to evolve with us. We decided if we are to appeal to a much larger audience that we needed an actual singer with real appeal and a more rockin' personality. We have always kinda used a few different drummers but our bassist has only been in the band about 6 months. So I'm the only real original member of DD. The new music sounds nothing like DD. Now it's more a cross between Ailice In Chains, The Melvins, Wolfmother and Clutch with a little Rob Zombie and Iggy Pop thrown in. So if you search DD and hear the new music it's two completely different sounds. It was suggested that we change our name by our producer and my wife who manages us, for the better of the band.

As far as the writing. We did a lot of writing prior to the studio but here's how it works. Our producer, Garth Richardson, said we can't make an album that's not a hit and in order to do that the band is NEVER allowed to just write the songs and do their own thing. Writers are ALWAYS brought in to assist and guide the band to find its sound. He wants us to have this be the album that breaks and take us to the next level so he has a lot of say on what happens. His record of albums he has done is a proven track record and he has a lot of clout.

I have always been a huge Bloodsimple fan and Garth produced their first album. He suggested Nick Rowe, who played guitar for them and wrote all their tunes on both albums, help us. He contacted him and had him get in touch with me. We hit it off being that both of us are from NYC and are into the same things. Nick agreed to come help write the album and help us find our sound. He just finished producing the new Snoop Lion (Even Snoop has changed his name lol) and flew up here from Los Angeles to stay with us for the month. We have been in a pre-production studio since the 4th of March. We took all the stuff I wrote and dissected it. We took out the things we all liked and put the other stuff aside. Then we wrote 12 new songs using ideas I had already put together and some new ideas we came up with in the studio. Then Garth comes in and makes changes based on what he felt needed to be done.

Then our singer comes in and we work on his ideas with the songs and then again the songs change. The songs will be changed and re-written all the way up until the final sessions before recording starts on April 1st, but there may still be some changes in the studio.

So basically it is the band's job to come up with ideas. It's then the writer and producer's job to say, "OK this is what's good, this is what is sh1t, this is the way this songs needs to be re-structured and this is the the song that doesn't make the album. They will also bring in ideas they have from other projects that didn't make the cut for that band but is more fitting for you and mold it for your band. No band going for the level of what we're working on is allowed to have full reign of their songs. Record labels don't allow it unless they are so huge that they can sh1t in a box and sell it... Metallica anyone?

You know when you read in forums... "oh well XXXXXX band didn't write their own songs" and "So and so didn't write this" or "This guy didn't really play the solo"....? That's not some bands. That's MOST bands. I think we had that discussion a while back about Five Finger Death Punch, how they were assembled by the label and the album was written for them or whatever. It's totally feasible. My friend Dave sings for Annihilator and we were going to bring him in but he just got notified that they are putting out a new album and it's already written and he needs to fly to Toronto to record it. He plays guitar and sings and hasn't even heard the album yet and it's finished being written.

WELCOME TO THE RECORD INDUSTRY FELLAS. Laughing

So the reason we write in the studio is because then the writer, in this case, Nick, writes with us and helps with all the vocal melodies, helps with all the guitar riff structure and changes in the song, all the bass lines and drum structure. He does all the pre-production with us and gets the songs ready for actual studio sessions. In 2 weeks we head into the rehearsal room to fully learn all the new songs since we made a ton of changes over the last month to them and they aren't finished yet. We spend a week of 12 hour days learning the album inside and out so our parts are down perfect with Garth sitting in and ensuring we're playing the songs properly. Then on April 1st we go into the main studio to start tracking. We'll be in the studio tracking every day for about a month. Then Josh Wilbur who did the last 2 Lamb Of God albums will be mixing our album. Once that is done it's off to the races for a few years of touring. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Finally the main reason we spend all that money, all that time with a writer and big producer? So when we deal with the labels, distributers and tour agents we don't have doors slammed in our faces. Our album is fully ready to go, the band is fully ready to tour and the songs are on point. We are investing in our future.

I know some may say that it's stupid. I know some people won't understand. I know some people think having writers is cheating. I know some people don't want any part of how this is done. This is the reality though. We had a few meetings prior to starting this with the powers that be and we were sat down and it was all explained to us. This is what it takes and this is TOTALLY NORMAL. I'm still coming to grips with some of it. I honestly am not 100% comfortable with how everything is evolving but I'm learning as I go.

alot of people know this stuff. alot of people choose to ignore the truth too and are just too arogant.
This right here is alot of times why your favorite local band ends up sucking, being different once major lable cd comes out, or has the sold out sound or second cd always sucks. Some times its for the better, sometimes its not and too many hands in the pot. So many famous bands use outside help but they arent going to advertise it on their cd. its just part of the game. Its no different than actors with acting coaches, dialect coaches, make up artists, hair stylists, set designers, etc. Imagine how shitty a movie would be without all that or a director and writers. Its a business selling a product. At the same time, you cant be lead so blindly that when its all said and done you are scratching your head and trying to figure out what went wrong too.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

www.DropD.net wrote:

You know who didn't have songwriters writing their songs? Pantera. Metallica. Led Zeppelin. Nowadays, most the music sounds the same and we have a million one hit wonders.

On the other hand though, if you can get Desmond Child you'll have a hit for sure!

Zepplin didn't have a song writer, they just stole an entire album's worth of music from other bands and called it their own. Then they got big and could do what they want. "Good Times Bad Tims" was the only song they actually wrote on Led Zepplin One. They still had producers shaping their albums too...

Metallica? You think they didn't writers? Bob Rock... He is responsible for much of Metallica after Justice and that's when they got really big. Rick Rubin.... Everything after Bob Rock. Producer means more than watching the engineer move faders. If you have an engineer who calls himself a producer and doesn't tell the band what's good, what sucks and how to change things to sound better than what you have then he's just an engineer calling himself a producer.

Pantera? I have a close friend that was tracking in the same studio Dime was laying down solos in and I know for a fact he had a producer and people helping him and pushing him to do things to make the songs better. If you think those bands were all bad asses that could do what they wanted without being told otherwise, then you're mistaken.

I'm won't take it personally because for the few people that bitch about how they know about what we did we'll have many fans that just like us for the music. I'm in it for the music. It's just like playing a club and there are those few musicians sitting in the corner talking sh1t about you, not having a good time. Fvck those guys. I don't care what I have to do to get there. As long as we're happy, that's all that matters.

People say that's selling out which is a very mislead statement. It's not selling out dude, it's buying in. If you just want to play the small local clubs and tour very small and not make a career then you can do it your own way. You may be that .00001 band that gets discovered... That's a crapshoot. If you want to make a real run at it you have to invest in it.

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 2131

BLOODROOT wrote:

you know what I love about this forum and when I say love that is scarasm. I really mean well Ill be nice.

I really love when inexperience people try to tell me s#%t they have no idea what the %$#@! they are talking about. its almost like your 8th grade science teacher trying to tell steven hawkins he is wrong.

Are you saying you're the Steven Hawkins of guitar? Laughing

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

And just to add to what I said above... It's the same for you Jeremy. You created a product that was already out there. You're not the first guy to make loop switchers... You're not stupid though, you put Grady Champion's name on it. You can't sit here and say by not having him involved in some way that you don't get a boost in website traffic and or ordering even if by word of mouth. There is nothing wrong with your switching unit, it's high quality, does what it should and by people's comments it's really cool... So why have Grady Champion on it? A little help from a name is cool right? To say otherwise is just denial Wink

What I did is restructure and look at what it would take to "Make It" in the industry. The band was't working the way I wanted it to after a few years. I have toured all over the US and Canada with DD and other bands. I have put in my time. So I found other guys in my area doing the same thing in their projects who were treading water. We met, and I said, "It's time to get serious". We put our collective heads together with proper management, proper production, proper writing help and a budget. Instead of 3 bands struggling we are not one cohesive unit with one focus and some horsepower behind us. If anyone has a problem with that then they need to find other things to worry about Laughing

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 7639 Location: Florida

I can make either system sound equally as bad Laughing

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:46 pm

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

www.DropD.net wrote:

You know who didn't have songwriters writing their songs? Pantera. Metallica. Led Zeppelin. Nowadays, most the music sounds the same and we have a million one hit wonders.

On the other hand though, if you can get Desmond Child you'll have a hit for sure!

Zepplin didn't have a song writer, they just stole an entire album's worth of music from other bands and called it their own. Then they got big and could do what they want. "Good Times Bad Tims" was the only song they actually wrote on Led Zepplin One. They still had producers shaping their albums too...

Metallica? You think they didn't writers? Bob Rock... He is responsible for much of Metallica after Justice and that's when they got really big. Rick Rubin.... Everything after Bob Rock. Producer means more than watching the engineer move faders. If you have an engineer who calls himself a producer and doesn't tell the band what's good, what sucks and how to change things to sound better than what you have then he's just an engineer calling himself a producer.

Pantera? I have a close friend that was tracking in the same studio Dime was laying down solos in and I know for a fact he had a producer and people helping him and pushing him to do things to make the songs better. If you think those bands were all bad asses that could do what they wanted without being told otherwise, then you're mistaken.

I'm won't take it personally because for the few people that bitch about how they know about what we did we'll have many fans that just like us for the music. I'm in it for the music. It's just like playing a club and there are those few musicians sitting in the corner talking sh1t about you, not having a good time. Fvck those guys. I don't care what I have to do to get there. As long as we're happy, that's all that matters.

People say that's selling out which is a very mislead statement. It's not selling out dude, it's buying in. If you just want to play the small local clubs and tour very small and not make a career then you can do it your own way. You may be that .00001 band that gets discovered... That's a crapshoot. If you want to make a real run at it you have to invest in it.

Well realize that by "buying in" you'll never make any real money. Those "Hits" you'll put out will have lots of people collecting off them.

As for Metallica and pantera, Metallica wasn't that good after Justice. the outside help was the demise. As for Pantera, They and They alone wrote their songs. of course they had a producer. Don't all major label bands?

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

And just to add to what I said above... It's the same for you Jeremy. You created a product that was already out there. You're not the first guy to make loop switchers... You're not stupid though, you put Grady Champion's name on it. You can't sit here and say by not having him involved in some way that you don't get a boost in website traffic and or ordering even if by word of mouth. There is nothing wrong with your switching unit, it's high quality, does what it should and by people's comments it's really cool... So why have Grady Champion on it? A little help from a name is cool right? To say otherwise is just denial Wink

What I did is restructure and look at what it would take to "Make It" in the industry. The band was't working the way I wanted it to after a few years. I have toured all over the US and Canada with DD and other bands. I have put in my time. So I found other guys in my area doing the same thing in their projects who were treading water. We met, and I said, "It's time to get serious". We put our collective heads together with proper management, proper production, proper writing help and a budget. Instead of 3 bands struggling we are not one cohesive unit with one focus and some horsepower behind us. If anyone has a problem with that then they need to find other things to worry about Laughing

As for my pedals, say whatever you wanna say. I made a pedal for myself, and now I sell them all over the world. It's certainly not because of the name of 1 of my pedals. There are actually 2 companies that make products like mine. Both of those companies charge a ton more than I do and have a HUGE waiting list. I filled a niche. I do find it funny that I give an opinion about playing tunes you didn't write and you try to knock my pedal business. I have 2 Grammy award winning bands using my pedals so I don't feel bad by your comments. Laughing

I actually find it amusing when someone gets called out and they try to change the subject.

Joined: 21 Jul 2008 Posts: 614 Location: Yorkshire, England

www.DropD.net wrote:

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

www.DropD.net wrote:

You know who didn't have songwriters writing their songs? Pantera. Metallica. Led Zeppelin. Nowadays, most the music sounds the same and we have a million one hit wonders.

On the other hand though, if you can get Desmond Child you'll have a hit for sure!

Zepplin didn't have a song writer, they just stole an entire album's worth of music from other bands and called it their own. Then they got big and could do what they want. "Good Times Bad Tims" was the only song they actually wrote on Led Zepplin One. They still had producers shaping their albums too...

Metallica? You think they didn't writers? Bob Rock... He is responsible for much of Metallica after Justice and that's when they got really big. Rick Rubin.... Everything after Bob Rock. Producer means more than watching the engineer move faders. If you have an engineer who calls himself a producer and doesn't tell the band what's good, what sucks and how to change things to sound better than what you have then he's just an engineer calling himself a producer.

Pantera? I have a close friend that was tracking in the same studio Dime was laying down solos in and I know for a fact he had a producer and people helping him and pushing him to do things to make the songs better. If you think those bands were all bad asses that could do what they wanted without being told otherwise, then you're mistaken.

I'm won't take it personally because for the few people that bitch about how they know about what we did we'll have many fans that just like us for the music. I'm in it for the music. It's just like playing a club and there are those few musicians sitting in the corner talking sh1t about you, not having a good time. Fvck those guys. I don't care what I have to do to get there. As long as we're happy, that's all that matters.

People say that's selling out which is a very mislead statement. It's not selling out dude, it's buying in. If you just want to play the small local clubs and tour very small and not make a career then you can do it your own way. You may be that .00001 band that gets discovered... That's a crapshoot. If you want to make a real run at it you have to invest in it.

Well realize that by "buying in" you'll never make any real money. Those "Hits" you'll put out will have lots of people collecting off them.

As for Metallica and pantera, Metallica wasn't that good after Justice. the outside help was the demise. As for Pantera, They and They alone wrote their songs. of course they had a producer. Don't all major label bands?

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

And just to add to what I said above... It's the same for you Jeremy. You created a product that was already out there. You're not the first guy to make loop switchers... You're not stupid though, you put Grady Champion's name on it. You can't sit here and say by not having him involved in some way that you don't get a boost in website traffic and or ordering even if by word of mouth. There is nothing wrong with your switching unit, it's high quality, does what it should and by people's comments it's really cool... So why have Grady Champion on it? A little help from a name is cool right? To say otherwise is just denial Wink

What I did is restructure and look at what it would take to "Make It" in the industry. The band was't working the way I wanted it to after a few years. I have toured all over the US and Canada with DD and other bands. I have put in my time. So I found other guys in my area doing the same thing in their projects who were treading water. We met, and I said, "It's time to get serious". We put our collective heads together with proper management, proper production, proper writing help and a budget. Instead of 3 bands struggling we are not one cohesive unit with one focus and some horsepower behind us. If anyone has a problem with that then they need to find other things to worry about Laughing

As for my pedals, say whatever you wanna say. I made a pedal for myself, and now I sell them all over the world. It's certainly not because of the name of 1 of my pedals. There are actually 2 companies that make products like mine. Both of those companies charge a ton more than I do and have a HUGE waiting list. I filled a niche. I do find it funny that I give an opinion about playing tunes you didn't write and you try to knock my pedal business. I have 2 Grammy award winning bands using my pedals so I don't feel bad by your comments. Laughing

I actually find it amusing when someone gets called out and they try to change the subject.

Judging from what Lanning said, he wasn't trying to knock your pedal business. In fact, it looks more like he was using it as an example of success.

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:19 pm

NorthernMonkey wrote:

Judging from what Lanning said, he wasn't trying to knock your pedal business. In fact, it looks more like he was using it as an example of success.

Perhaps, but my point is that Grady's name on my pedals has really NOTHING to do with my success if you even call it that. It really is a different argument. Grady didn't design my pedals and have me put my name on them. I did the design work by myself via studying. If Lanning names his song after his producer, that would be the same as me naming my 1st pedal after the guy who made the pedal to replicate. Having someone write your songs may gain you a hit, but at the end of the day it's not really "yours" is it?

At the end of theday, my pedal business is strictly a hobby. My bills do not get paid with my hobby. I run a different business for that.

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12250 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

BLOYD wrote:

BLOODROOT wrote:

you know what I love about this forum and when I say love that is scarasm. I really mean well Ill be nice.

I really love when inexperience people try to tell me s#%t they have no idea what the %$#@! they are talking about. its almost like your 8th grade science teacher trying to tell steven hawkins he is wrong.

Are you saying you're the Steven Hawkins of guitar? Laughing

no not at all. didnt mean it that way when I was typing it but now reading back, it appears that way. but wasnt. good catch. surprised no one jumped all over that one. ahahaahhah. that was like gas and a match but nobody sparked it.

Joined: 17 Dec 2004 Posts: 9602 Location: Portsmouth, VA

BLOODROOT wrote:

BLOYD wrote:

BLOODROOT wrote:

you know what I love about this forum and when I say love that is scarasm. I really mean well Ill be nice.

I really love when inexperience people try to tell me s#%t they have no idea what the %$#@! they are talking about. its almost like your 8th grade science teacher trying to tell steven hawkins he is wrong.

Are you saying you're the Steven Hawkins of guitar? Laughing

no not at all. didnt mean it that way when I was typing it but now reading back, it appears that way. but wasnt. good catch. surprised no one jumped all over that one. ahahaahhah. that was like gas and a match but nobody sparked it.

I thought about it but it really wasn't worth it. It's more fun to watch Lanning get hamstrung by the jackals. Laughing

Joined: 13 Feb 2004 Posts: 5603 Location: phoenix az.

Lanning is Killdozer wrote:

RobBouchardDeanml wrote:

well good Lanning and good luck with that.Ive been in the studio the last 2 weeks tracking the new throw the switch album and been playing shows non stop every weekend for 4 months now thank god i dont have a show the week after next I need a break.Wait a minute why would you do all uv done with ur band DD and spend all that money doing it and then change the name?Please enlighten us what thats about?why would u go into the studio to write and track?when I go to the studio I have my s#%t down and know what im going to play most people do.Whats that about.not trying to be a dick but whats that about?isnt that hella more expensive than just writing before u go into the studio?usually we go play a bunch of shows and lock our sht down tight before going to the studio so we have time to work out the bugs.
now back to talking about fractal?

We, DD, were more of a metal band. You know the screaming, riffy stuff. We fired the singer because he refused to evolve with us. We decided if we are to appeal to a much larger audience that we needed an actual singer with real appeal and a more rockin' personality. We have always kinda used a few different drummers but our bassist has only been in the band about 6 months. So I'm the only real original member of DD. The new music sounds nothing like DD. Now it's more a cross between Ailice In Chains, The Melvins, Wolfmother and Clutch with a little Rob Zombie and Iggy Pop thrown in. So if you search DD and hear the new music it's two completely different sounds. It was suggested that we change our name by our producer and my wife who manages us, for the better of the band.

As far as the writing. We did a lot of writing prior to the studio but here's how it works. Our producer, Garth Richardson, said we can't make an album that's not a hit and in order to do that the band is NEVER allowed to just write the songs and do their own thing. Writers are ALWAYS brought in to assist and guide the band to find its sound. He wants us to have this be the album that breaks and take us to the next level so he has a lot of say on what happens. His record of albums he has done is a proven track record and he has a lot of clout.

I have always been a huge Bloodsimple fan and Garth produced their first album. He suggested Nick Rowe, who played guitar for them and wrote all their tunes on both albums, help us. He contacted him and had him get in touch with me. We hit it off being that both of us are from NYC and are into the same things. Nick agreed to come help write the album and help us find our sound. He just finished producing the new Snoop Lion (Even Snoop has changed his name lol) and flew up here from Los Angeles to stay with us for the month. We have been in a pre-production studio since the 4th of March. We took all the stuff I wrote and dissected it. We took out the things we all liked and put the other stuff aside. Then we wrote 12 new songs using ideas I had already put together and some new ideas we came up with in the studio. Then Garth comes in and makes changes based on what he felt needed to be done.

Then our singer comes in and we work on his ideas with the songs and then again the songs change. The songs will be changed and re-written all the way up until the final sessions before recording starts on April 1st, but there may still be some changes in the studio.

So basically it is the band's job to come up with ideas. It's then the writer and producer's job to say, "OK this is what's good, this is what is sh1t, this is the way this songs needs to be re-structured and this is the the song that doesn't make the album. They will also bring in ideas they have from other projects that didn't make the cut for that band but is more fitting for you and mold it for your band. No band going for the level of what we're working on is allowed to have full reign of their songs. Record labels don't allow it unless they are so huge that they can sh1t in a box and sell it... Metallica anyone?

You know when you read in forums... "oh well XXXXXX band didn't write their own songs" and "So and so didn't write this" or "This guy didn't really play the solo"....? That's not some bands. That's MOST bands. I think we had that discussion a while back about Five Finger Death Punch, how they were assembled by the label and the album was written for them or whatever. It's totally feasible. My friend Dave sings for Annihilator and we were going to bring him in but he just got notified that they are putting out a new album and it's already written and he needs to fly to Toronto to record it. He plays guitar and sings and hasn't even heard the album yet and it's finished being written.

WELCOME TO THE RECORD INDUSTRY FELLAS. Laughing

So the reason we write in the studio is because then the writer, in this case, Nick, writes with us and helps with all the vocal melodies, helps with all the guitar riff structure and changes in the song, all the bass lines and drum structure. He does all the pre-production with us and gets the songs ready for actual studio sessions. In 2 weeks we head into the rehearsal room to fully learn all the new songs since we made a ton of changes over the last month to them and they aren't finished yet. We spend a week of 12 hour days learning the album inside and out so our parts are down perfect with Garth sitting in and ensuring we're playing the songs properly. Then on April 1st we go into the main studio to start tracking. We'll be in the studio tracking every day for about a month. Then Josh Wilbur who did the last 2 Lamb Of God albums will be mixing our album. Once that is done it's off to the races for a few years of touring. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Finally the main reason we spend all that money, all that time with a writer and big producer? So when we deal with the labels, distributers and tour agents we don't have doors slammed in our faces. Our album is fully ready to go, the band is fully ready to tour and the songs are on point. We are investing in our future.

I know some may say that it's stupid. I know some people won't understand. I know some people think having writers is cheating. I know some people don't want any part of how this is done. This is the reality though. We had a few meetings prior to starting this with the powers that be and we were sat down and it was all explained to us. This is what it takes and this is TOTALLY NORMAL. I'm still coming to grips with some of it. I honestly am not 100% comfortable with how everything is evolving but I'm learning as I go.

on one note
Well Lanning sounds like u might be really doing something to get urself on the big stage sounds like big production.Like u possibly might be headed somewhere and i cant blame u for that.
on another note
Theres no way id let a bunch of people come in and chop up all my bands music and tell me what to play.My Dad always warned me of avoiding deals like this.He always told me if ur going to do it do it on your own terms and never compromise your music for money.I could see having a producer come in and make u work harder on what u got and push u to play it better.and maybe say this songs better than that song.but having total control over what I want wouldn't fly for me.bringing in writers to write on my album?Are u serious then what the hell are u there for?How are you going to have people not in ur band writing and arranging ur music?You feel good about this?
Look in all fairness I can Respect your trying to get famous but at what cost?Will u be able to sit back and say I made this cd this is all me?When people say your cd rocks will u feel good about it?Pretty much from what you said your just a hired gun on this project being told what to do and play so u can make it.This really wont be your music this will be a product a bunch of people put out.Other writers,your producers ect.You have no creative control that would kill me but im in it for the music not the fame.I personally would only do this as a hired gun I would not claim it as "my band" cause it wouldn't be my music only some of it would.
If ur looking for fame and to be famous I can see why your doing this and i cant blame u.But when its all said and done u wont be able to say that u created this because other people created this with your riffs.
Good luck with it Lanning I really hope it comes out good for you and you are happy with it.Nothing wrong with putting out a quality produced cd made for the masses.Im sure alot of whats out there is done this way.

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:05 am

So....... Fractal no bueno for a while Laughing

Joined: 29 Oct 2007 Posts: 724

Canada already has one Nickelback!! Laughing

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12250 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

Rob there is no such thing as bands having 100% of the creativity on their records anymore when it comes to major lables. It would be nice if the recording industry was as innocent as your naive way you preceive it to be. your music is a product, not much different than barbie doll in a box. Alot of money goes into pushing a product, recording, production, marketing, touring, etc. All takes money from investors looking to make a return on their investment. If you think someone is going to write a check for all of that and leave it in the hands of 4 or 5 drunk/stoned, less educated people they dont even know, you are mistaken. It just doesnt work that way. It hasnt been like that for a very long time. Even the eEgles were a made up band to make money. Don Henley was signed to David Geffens label and wasnt making any returns on Geffens investment so David put the Eagles together. Saw that on a documentry on PBS about David Geffen. They arent much different than the monkeys cept they didnt have a silly comedy show. If you want to get down to it, There was a another band called mother love bone that lost their singer and hired an actor as a replacement cause they heard another band called The Rolling Stones did it. You know them as pearljam. Country music (the biggest music in the world right now) has been pretty fake for ever. Song writers with pretty faces and interchangable band members in the background. Everyone is trying to be famous and make a buck, the record lable machines are going to make it happen at all cost and arent going to let arrogance stand in the way. Especially now, big companies are starting to see big profits again. Speaking of arrogance. I read that Dave Grohl got the Nirvana gig because the original drummer of nirvana was arrogant and not flexible in the studio and the producer had him shitcanned from the lable. Im sure all kinds of evil stuff goes on behind the scenes. It would be awesome if everything was the way we actually think it is.

Joined: 13 Feb 2004 Posts: 5603 Location: phoenix az.

People say that's selling out which is a very mislead statement. It's not selling out dude, it's buying in. If you just want to play the small local clubs and tour very small and not make a career then you can do it your own way. You may be that .00001 band that gets discovered... That's a crapshoot. If you want to make a real run at it you have to invest in it.[/quote]

whats wrong with club bands?Most famous bands start in clubs.Not everybodys trying to be a rock star Lanning there are tons of musicians out there playing music on a regular basis as a career that are not famous.Some people play music cause they love it and to create something original of their own without compromise with no intentions of becoming a rock star.
Y do u always talk like if people arent on the road or in the studio that they are not worth talking about?Like they are worthless because they are not signed or on the raidio?Do u have no respect for musicians who just want to create good music?This is what being a musician is all about. seems to me ur main concern is being famous?You should have repect for anybody doing music for a living there are tons of non famous musicians doing it that are supreame musicians .my Dad has been playing music for a living 5 nights a week for 40 years I can respect the hell out of that!

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

Check page 2...

Joined: 13 Feb 2004 Posts: 5603 Location: phoenix az.

BLOODROOT wrote:

Rob there is no such thing as bands having 100% of the creativity on their records anymore when it comes to major lables. It would be nice if the recording industry was as innocent as your naive way you preceive it to be. your music is a product, not much different than barbie doll in a box. Alot of money goes into pushing a product, recording, production, marketing, touring, etc. All takes money from investors looking to make a return on their investment. If you think someone is going to write a check for all of that and leave it in the hands of 4 or 5 drunk/stoned, less educated people they dont even know, you are mistaken. It just doesnt work that way. It hasnt been like that for a very long time. Even the eEgles were a made up band to make money. Don Henley was signed to David Geffens label and wasnt making any returns on Geffens investment so David put the Eagles together. Saw that on a documentry on PBS about David Geffen. They arent much different than the monkeys cept they didnt have a silly comedy show. If you want to get down to it, There was a another band called mother love bone that lost their singer and hired an actor as a replacement cause they heard another band called The Rolling Stones did it. You know them as pearljam. Country music (the biggest music in the world right now) has been pretty fake for ever. Song writers with pretty faces and interchangable band members in the background. Everyone is trying to be famous and make a buck, the record lable machines are going to make it happen at all cost and arent going to let arrogance stand in the way. Especially now, big companies are starting to see big profits again. Speaking of arrogance. I read that Dave Grohl got the Nirvana gig because the original drummer of nirvana was arrogant and not flexible in the studio and the producer had him shitcanned from the lable. Im sure all kinds of evil stuff goes on behind the scenes. It would be awesome if everything was the way we actually think it is.

oh im not blind to this chris but im not trying to be famous either im putting out music because i love to.and wheather my album sell 5 copies or a 1000 or people just steal it i could care less.Long as some people enjoy it im good and they do.everything ive put out i had a 100 percent control of whats on it and its all me(all the guitar)im proud of what ive done its pure and what ive wanted!To me thats golden!But hey someone wants to go the other route more power to them.im not fame hungry or monoey hungry im 45 thats not my big priority making pure music is!if you cant understand what im doing and why then i dont know what to tell ya!
People are way to concerned with "making it"and fame its supposed to be about the music.

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12250 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

bottom line, if a major record deal is what you are looking for then you will have to play the game and like it. if not, great musicians are a dime a dozen and someone else is waiting for you to get ouf line for their turn.

When I lived in Hollywood, I heard a good statement that is somewhat true. If you got talent, its not if you make it, its when. You have to stick around long enough to learn all the games. The beautiful people go to the front of the line, the talented ones go to the back of the line and wait their turn.