Question

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 1:32 pm

if Bolt on's are worse than set necks

then why dose the Phantom ML X sound better than the 79 series???

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 1:36 pm

pickups?

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 2:30 pm

anything else???

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 4381 Location: Vaasa, Finland

Well, first of all, Setnecks own the bolt ons... Its all bout the Pups...

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 4:52 pm

then it if it is all about the pups

bolt on or set neck shouldn't be a factor...

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 4381 Location: Vaasa, Finland

Ranma wrote:

bolt on or set neck shouldn't be a factor...

Yepp...

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 403 Location: Cincinnati, OH

You're comparing apples and oranges here guys...

... For example, driving a Yugo car sucks... but it might be a lot better if we moddded it with a hemi... would drive as nice, but it would haul ass.... Conversely... If we took that Yugo engine and dropped it into a...say, chevy cavalier, it would suck, although "drive" a lot better... are you getting teh picture... now ideally, you'll put teh "hemi" into teh "cavalier" or what have you... or better, yet, suck it in and get a neck through "corvette".

There a distinct tonal variations between a set neck and a bolt on. HOWEVER.... you might like the bolt on tone better for you. I don;t though. A pick up is liek a microphone in amny ways, so if you record/play somethign with a shitty mic, it'll sound bad, no matter how good the "real" tone is. Getting it?

Therefore, Setneck tone is thicker, but can sound bad if it has bad pups. Bolt on's sound a little thinner, but with good pups, can be made to sound pretty good. EVH uses bolt ons.

NOW... if we took that set neck and dropped in some great pups, it would blow both it's previous tone and the bolt on out of the watter, even if the bolt on has good pups, but keep in mind, one mans garbage is another treasure. you might LIKE the thin sound to get those piercing highs or whatever. all a matter of preferance.

Bolt on VS. Setneck realy is an argument dating WAY back to Fender (bolt on) VS. Gibson (set neck), and which tone various player wanted. Country players needed tthat "twang" and chose Fender. Blues payers likd the gibson thick tones for those weeping notes on their solos.

bear in mind, Dean Z. has stated several times his designes are based off of Gibson, as when he started, he felt Gibsons were Great guitars, but thier quality had hit the wall in teh 70's, so he wanted those tpe of killer guitars, with premo quality and electronis and looks... the whole package!

My suggestion; put some high output pups in that 79, and you'll discover a whole new world of tones out of that 79!

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 9:55 pm

well said joe

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 4381 Location: Vaasa, Finland

DINASTY wrote:

You're comparing apples and oranges here guys...

... For example, driving a Yugo car sucks... but it might be a lot better if we moddded it with a hemi... would drive as nice, but it would haul taint.... Conversely... If we took that Yugo engine and dropped it into a...say, chevy cavalier, it would suck, although "drive" a lot better... are you getting teh picture... now ideally, you'll put teh "hemi" into teh "cavalier" or what have you... or better, yet, suck it in and get a neck through "corvette".

There a distinct tonal variations between a set neck and a bolt on. HOWEVER.... you might like the bolt on tone better for you. I don;t though. A pick up is liek a microphone in amny ways, so if you record/play somethign with a shitty mic, it'll sound bad, no matter how good the "real" tone is. Getting it?

Therefore, Setneck tone is thicker, but can sound bad if it has bad pups. Bolt on's sound a little thinner, but with good pups, can be made to sound pretty good. EVH uses bolt ons.

NOW... if we took that set neck and dropped in some great pups, it would blow both it's previous tone and the bolt on out of the watter, even if the bolt on has good pups, but keep in mind, one mans garbage is another treasure. you might LIKE the thin sound to get those piercing highs or whatever. all a matter of preferance.

Bolt on VS. Setneck realy is an argument dating WAY back to Fender (bolt on) VS. Gibson (set neck), and which tone various player wanted. Country players needed tthat "twang" and chose Fender. Blues payers likd the gibson thick tones for those weeping notes on their solos.

bear in mind, Dean Z. has stated several times his designes are based off of Gibson, as when he started, he felt Gibsons were Great guitars, but thier quality had hit the wall in teh 70's, so he wanted those tpe of killer guitars, with premo quality and electronis and looks... the whole package!

My suggestion; put some high output pups in that 79, and you'll discover a whole new world of tones out of that 79!

Umm, yea, thats what Ranma and me just said... Confused

It's all about the pups....

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 403 Location: Cincinnati, OH

Okay... apparently you didn't get it... let me make it PAINFULLY CLEAR!

good pups in mediocre guitar=mediocre
bad pups in great guitar=mediocre
good pups in good guitar=good.

EVERYHTING effects tone, NOT JUST CONSTRUCTION. the pups are NOT the only thing that matters. The noir probably has slightly better pups, either from deliberate or accident (pver/under winding). if you change the pups on your 79, it will sound better than the noir because it has good pups AND better construction.

You could probably stick seymour duncans in a harmony,and it would sound OK, but it won;t even be in the same ballpark as my USA TC ML. why? be cause good pups cant touch good pups + good construction + better quality etc. etc. etc.

a 79 is a better guitar.

if you don't like it's sound, change the pups and electronics.

Any one terribel thing in any given signal will create a crappy sound. For example, if you think your noir sounds good, let's play it through an effects box with a dead batterry. sound like crap? of course it does... because anything in the chain contributes to teh sound. for optimum sound;
Good guitar + quality cables + Quality high performance amplifier.

Be sure to have good strings, nice pups, and you're using SPEAKER CABLES for your head to cabinet interface. guitar cables do NOT sound as good for this purpose.

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 4797 Location: BEERMUDA

Ranma in your case it's all about the PU's...the stock PU's in the 79 IMO suck a$$, they are weak!

You lpay metal, you need more power, teh PU's in teh noir or phantom series are FAR better suited to that, much more output and tighter bottom end!

I have owned a ML panhtom XT and it rocked, maily becaus eof the PU;s, but I think if you put some decent PU's in the 79 it would sound even better, try if you can score some nice DiMarzio's on ebay cheap!

Like X2N"s, suer 2's, super 3's or Super Distortions, you will see it will improve your TONE HUGE!

Joined: 30 Nov 2003 Posts: 603 Location: ENGLAND

Ranma wrote:

if Bolt on's are worse than set necks

then why dose the Phantom ML X sound better than the 79 series???

Correct me if i am wrong but isnt it all about what sound you prefer???? you cant say one sounds better than the other unless you take it to extreams like Squire to USA dean

Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:53 pm

that is why I am getting another Noir X ML as my real axe I think I will pretty up the 79 and do the worst thing possible save selling it.

pu it on the wall.