Not Another Pickup thread!

Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 2976 Location: UK

Chaps,

I am looking to upgrade the pickups in my saggy crotch ML. It's going to be used for a variety of styles but mostly Prog (Coheed/Dream Theatre) and heavy stuff (Machine Head/Trivium/AILD). I don't want actives (my Deciever has EMG's). My Thunder 30 head is quite a dark sounding amp (can get muddy with too much gain) so I'm looking for something saturated and rich but punches with clarity. Not too bothered about having an amazing clean tone because I can dial it back on the Volume control, and the TH30 has seriously nice cleans and I have an MXR Chorus.

I am looking at the DiMarzio Super Distortion mostly at the moment, because I really liked them when I played them previously. I know these are more for Hard Rock than metal but what would you guys suggest?

Thanks!

Greg.

Joined: 23 Nov 2005 Posts: 8257 Location: Ontario, Canada

I have a black Time Capsule or two to sell. They have all the grind of the Super Distortion but with less fuzz and more clarity. I have used them in a few guitars and always received great results. I'm only selling these to get different colored pickups.

I compared them to the Super Distortions in my Les Paul and Strat. The Time Capsul in the neck position is such a sweet sound. In the bridge it make a very clear rhythm and lead pickup.

Joined: 10 Feb 2006 Posts: 1373 Location: Lutz, Fl.

If you want a Dream Theater sound, you can try John P's original designed pickup, The Dimarzio Steve's Special. I really liked it except for the amount of compression it had. It had a lot. But it really cut through the mix, and was great for soloing.

Funny true story on the forum. I once said that the Steve's Special sounded very close to the Super Distortion. All's you do is increase the treble, and drop the mids a bit. This lead to someone getting their panties in a wad. They told me that the EQ says everything about a pickup, and blah, blah, blah. But that person didn't take into account compression, overall presence, and volume.

And here's the kicker. If you take both a S.D. and a S.S. and put them into simular guitars, run them through the same amp, you will notice they sound similar. The big difference is that the S.S. will have stronger treble, and a more scooped middle.

My next suggestion would be the Sey. Dun. JB8. Also known as a J.B. with an Alnico 8 bar magnet in it. It has a lot of presence, has an EQ of about 9/8/7 (T/M/B), and will cut through a dark amp really well. It also has a very nice sound when you back off the volume. Clean, but with a lot of tone. It's actually very versitile.

I hope those suggestions help you out.

Joined: 04 Apr 2005 Posts: 2431 Location: Midwest, Sweden

why you not want actives?

Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 2976 Location: UK

Thanks for your replies. I've been watching some pickup comparison videos and the DiMarzio SD's sound so full and alive. It's between them and the Duncan Distortion or JB.

I M Evil wrote:

why you not want actives?

I don't really want actives because I have a 81/85 set in my Deceiver and don't want to have both of my main guitars sounding similar. I know the Blackouts are meant to be much better than the EMG's, but I don't want my ML to be routed to fit the battery. I'm fairly certain I'm going to go for the Super Distortions because my local guitar shop isn't a Dean dealer so they don't have the DMT range. I really loved the DiMarzio SD's that were in a TC ML I played. It sounded killer.

Joined: 14 Aug 2012 Posts: 95

Greg... wrote:

Thanks for your replies. I've been watching some pickup comparison videos and the DiMarzio SD's sound so full and alive. It's between them and the Duncan Distortion or JB.

I M Evil wrote:

why you not want actives?

I don't really want actives because I have a 81/85 set in my Deceiver and don't want to have both of my main guitars sounding similar. I know the Blackouts are meant to be much better than the EMG's, but I don't want my ML to be routed to fit the battery. I'm fairly certain I'm going to go for the Super Distortions because my local guitar shop isn't a Dean dealer so they don't have the DMT range. I really loved the DiMarzio SD's that were in a TC ML I played. It sounded killer.

Have a Dimarzio SD in my newest guitar, hadn't heard them before but it is really quite cool. Have a PAF Pro in the neck as well, and seems a decent combination although not had them cranked properly to check them out at high volume. Am having a go on a mates guitar loaded with JB tonight as well so will have good idea what works best tomorrow if that helps?

Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 2976 Location: UK

Thanks pal, that would be great. Thanks for your help Smile

Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:19 pm

You can't really go wrong with Super Distortions

Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:34 pm

Ford, Dodge and Chevy are pretty good.. I'm really Digging the new Toyota and nissan pickups now days though....

NOTHING beats a Tahoe IMHO!!

Joined: 10 Feb 2006 Posts: 1373 Location: Lutz, Fl.

Grim Reaper wrote:

Ford, Dodge and Chevy are pretty good.. I'm really Digging the new Toyota and nissan pickups now days though....

NOTHING beats a Tahoe IMHO!!

I just can't believe Ford did away with the Ranger (in America.) My first vehicle was a 1985 Ford Ranger. I wanted my next vehicle to be a Ford Ranger (about 5 years down the road.) But I don't know if that will be happening.

Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:44 pm

synzzzer wrote:

Grim Reaper wrote:

Ford, Dodge and Chevy are pretty good.. I'm really Digging the new Toyota and nissan pickups now days though....

NOTHING beats a Tahoe IMHO!!

I just can't believe Ford did away with the Ranger (in America.) My first vehicle was a 1985 Ford Ranger. I wanted my next vehicle to be a Ford Ranger (about 5 years down the road.) But I don't know if that will be happening.

I've worked on alot of them over a 20 year stint an an Automotive Technician, they weren't bad at all... decent pickup for the money

Joined: 14 Aug 2012 Posts: 95

Greg... wrote:

Thanks pal, that would be great. Thanks for your help Smile

Ok went well last night and had great tone! (for a change)
direct comparison between JB and SD isn't totally accurate as one factor is the JB's were in a maple body, maple neck + fretboard and SD in mahogany body maple neck + fretboard. That said though the JB's were more trebly but didn't really notice too much difference in bite or lead tone.
Took along my LTD EX with 85/81 EMG's for comparison too, although mahogany body, rosewood fretboard and while it sounded great I got the feeling that the EMG's did the proper metal bit really well, jamming out the 80's nub-rod rock/ steel panther riffs they were a bit over powering.
My personal faves were the PAF/SD combination, PAF nice and warm, fat sounding rhythm tone and switched to SD for bite and that bit more gain. both sounded amazing with treble boost. JB possibly closer to the EMG if wanting similar type of sound.

That said I think I'll try the JB at some point as well

Hope some or even a tiny bit of that helps! Laughing

Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 2976 Location: UK

That's such a great help, thank you man! I think if the JB is more like the EMG I will go for the DiMarzio set.

Joined: 30 Nov 2003 Posts: 10593 Location: Canada

With nearly 100 guitars kicking around the house, and having had tons more over the last 40 years...

My fav pickups are;

DiMarzio Super Distortion in the bridge and neck

Duncan JB in the bridge and Alnico Pro II in the neck

Gibson 498T in the bridge 490R in the neck

Dean Baker Act in the bridge and neck

Joined: 14 Aug 2012 Posts: 95

Greg... wrote:

That's such a great help, thank you man! I think if the JB is more like the EMG I will go for the DiMarzio set.

no worries, course is just my opinion! Very Happy

No blame can be placed if you disagree lol

Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 2976 Location: UK

Okay so, the music shop have sold the DiMarzios I had on hold so I'm thinking I might go for the Blackouts as they have them in stock. I know I said I didn't want actives but the EMG and Blackouts comparison videos I've listened to are awesome. They sound really nice. Open, clear and powerful which is what I'm looking for. I'm hoping Lanning chimes in because I know he's had a good experience with the TH30 and Blackouts.

Joined: 15 Aug 2011 Posts: 42

Blackouts are great. They sound very organic and more akin to the overall tone of a great passive than the original EMG's.

Joined: 09 Mar 2004 Posts: 3072 Location: Frozen North

Grim Reaper wrote:

Ford, Dodge and Chevy are pretty good.. I'm really Digging the new Toyota and nissan pickups now days though....

NOTHING beats a Tahoe IMHO!!

i like Jeeps but they don't make em anymore and i'm down to 1 left
so i drive a Chevy now Laughing

Joined: 20 Aug 2008 Posts: 2182 Location: New York City

brgben wrote:

Blackouts are great. They sound very organic and more akin to the overall tone of a great passive than the original EMG's.

This.

But if you really don't want actives, I'd take a look at the X2N. I've recently been able to dial in a ridiculously articulate tone with them in my KV2. Granted, I've needed to put an OD in front of my amp to get that amazing tone, but still - it's definitely worth looking into.

Joined: 14 Oct 2009 Posts: 173 Location: Costa Mesa, CA

The Bill Lawrence but you have to install it upside down and backwards using a screwdriver forged from the horn of a black unicorn lol

seriously though, I know you said you weren't into actives, but the Seymour Duncan Mustaine Livewires are pretty kick-ass pickups. The don't have the digital tone that the EMG's seem to have. They're basically hopped up SD Jazz pickups.

Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 13396 Location: Earth

Greg... wrote:

Okay so, the music shop have sold the DiMarzios I had on hold so I'm thinking I might go for the Blackouts as they have them in stock. I know I said I didn't want actives but the EMG and Blackouts comparison videos I've listened to are awesome. They sound really nice. Open, clear and powerful which is what I'm looking for. I'm hoping Lanning chimes in because I know he's had a good experience with the TH30 and Blackouts.

I won't say Blackouts are better than EMGs but they are good. It depends on which model you get though. People say that EMGs are sterile and Blackouts are much better but I don't see it. My EMGs sound great. They are just a little more focused sounding than the Blackouts. Blackouts have a little more range in the sound which some people want. If you want a tighter sound then EMGs are the better option.

My Esoterik has both the AHB-1 (in the neck) and AHB-2 (in the bridge). The AHB-2 is stupid powerful and you can forget really clean tones on an amp unless you roll off the volume knob or use it in the lower output mode. I have a mini toggle installed so I can switch modes on the AHB-2 on the fly. I usually leave it in low power mode which makes it more dynamic sounding. I think you have the option at installation of which mode to set it to if you don't install the toggle switch (sold separately).

The only way to truly make a decision on a pickup is to try out as many as you can. Threads like these are good to get ideas but everyone's ear hears different things and everyone's playing style is so different that it's hard to really know what you're buying. I usually just go to a music store and play everything I can until I find something I like, regardless of guitar brand. Then I start taking a harder look at that pickup and how it may relate with my guitar and rig. If I change amps, sometimes I need new pickups because the sound/feel changes so much.

My personal opinion on the TH-30/Blackout combo? The TH-30 is a "wooly" sounding amp. It has good high gain but at band levels can be a little woofy to control. I'd either put in OD in front of it to tighten up the sound or stick with EMGs. Blackouts may add to the slop, but it also depends on your playing and the guitar itself.

Regardless of what people say, EMGs and Blackouts sound different in every guitar. Whomever said EMGs make every guitar sound the same needs their head examined. Just like other pickups, they change from guitar to guitar. And just like other pickups they have their own sound that is constant from guitar to guitar. Yes, EMGs sound like EMGs... So do JBs, 59s, Tone Zones, Classic +, Etc....

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:23 pm

krycek76 wrote:

The Bill Lawrence but you have to install it upside down and backwards using a screwdriver forged from the horn of a black unicorn lol

I let Becky reverse the pup, on one of MLs, and personally, it didn't change anything on the sound.

On my USAs, they are installed normal.

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:50 pm

Sounds like you need tight bass, and punchy mids.

I'm good with the SuperD. It may not be as articulalte in the bass as you want. But generally an awesome all around guitar. Screw the hard rock thing. You can play anything on a SuperD.

A PAF Pro might be a good call from DMZ also.

From Duncan, the Distortion would the pup. A JB might have too loose of bass. I'd consider the JB, or maybe a JB 8 (which I love). That's a JB w/ an Alnico 8 mag instead. All of those will have punch like Muhammad Ali.

I personally like the Blackout. It's definitely different than the EMG to me - but that's just a personal preference. I see the Blackout as a sort of active PAF style. The EMG is it's own thing. About the only thing I can't do with the Blackout is a spikey Tele style Blues.

Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 2976 Location: UK

Thanks for all your replies. It is much appreciated. I ended up going for the Duncan Blackouts. I haven't looked back. I'm glad I went for the Blackouts because they are certainly much more versatile. They absolutely kill my Deceiver that has the 81/85 set.

Check it out:

http://www.deanguitars.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1492706&highlight=#1492706

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:54 pm

Glad you like them. I am not an "active" guy personally. But my Blackout guitar is a go-to because I can just play so dang much with it. Just set the volume at the right spot and go.

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12255 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

imho +anything with the duncan logo is a waste of money and an atrocity to your ears. go with the dimarzio super distortion

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:24 am

BLOODROOT wrote:

imho +anything with the duncan logo is a waste of money and an atrocity to your ears. go with the dimarzio super distortion

You've never played my Soltero with the Phat Cat P-90 in the neck Wink

Joined: 02 Apr 2010 Posts: 322

Greg... wrote:

Chaps,

I am looking to upgrade the pickups in my saggy crotch ML. It's going to be used for a variety of styles but mostly Prog (Coheed/Dream Theatre) and heavy stuff (Machine Head/Trivium/AILD). I don't want actives (my Deciever has EMG's). My Thunder 30 head is quite a dark sounding amp (can get muddy with too much gain) so I'm looking for something saturated and rich but punches with clarity. Not too bothered about having an amazing clean tone because I can dial it back on the Volume control, and the TH30 has seriously nice cleans and I have an MXR Chorus.

I am looking at the DiMarzio Super Distortion mostly at the moment, because I really liked them when I played them previously. I know these are more for Hard Rock than metal but what would you guys suggest?

Thanks!

Greg.

It's really hard to beat Bill Lawrence pickups. You have to realize that actives have a preamp that imparts its own tone on whatever guitar you put it in, no matter the wood or if it is a bulldozer with a set of strings on it (not really, but see what I am getting at). Passives will let whatever wood is in the guitar, type of strings, bridge etc shine through in addition to the pickups natural flavor. If you search my username on youtube I have a video that really addresses what you are asking.

Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 12255 Location: PEORIA ILLINOIS

emgs have their place. I have 2 guitars with them. Id rather take them out but its too much a hassle replacing the pots and rewiring.
they do sound different in every guitar. I like them in my ec1000 but cant stand them in my mh1000. The 81s are missing some lows though. they are like chopped right off. I think that is why they work for randy so well with the mesa. Mesa have a shitton of lows and emgs tame it. with any pickup they are going to be different in any guitar with different amps. I just havent found a duncan I like. Im a dimarzio guy all the way.

Joined: 02 Apr 2010 Posts: 322

BLOODROOT wrote:

emgs have their place. I have 2 guitars with them. Id rather take them out but its too much a hassle replacing the pots and rewiring.
they do sound different in every guitar. I like them in my ec1000 but cant stand them in my mh1000. The 81s are missing some lows though. they are like chopped right off. I think that is why they work for randy so well with the mesa. Mesa have a shitton of lows and emgs tame it. with any pickup they are going to be different in any guitar with different amps. I just havent found a duncan I like. Im a dimarzio guy all the way.

I don't think they sound different in different guitars, but this is an opinion. I think if there is a difference, it would be between guitars that had lower fundamentals between each other within the EQ response of the actives, where a trebly guitar simply would not ever put out lower bass as far as another bassier guitar. Like the trebly guitar will have mids and highs, where a bassier guitar will have the same with additional low freq content, but both are going through the same predisposed EQ curve presented by the preamp in the active pups. A preamp is a very low boost commonly incorporating tone altering functions, which active pups are a preamp.